Whole Latte Love water recipe - Page 2

#11: Post by **CraigF** » May 4th, 2018, 9:30 am

This is what I purchased off amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Potassium-Bicarb ... 0753LRY65/

I like it so far, I do the same mix as ben8jam.

#12: Post by **pcrussell50** » May 4th, 2018, 11:11 am

From the LMLM thread:

PandaSPUR wrote:I'm not really new, but I'm definitely not a professional either. My kitchen is just too small to fit a whole espresso setup inside sadly!

I didn't mean to imply that you were. I was just trying to speak in general terms and you got caught up in the wheels.

A quick breakdown of what you've read here and in this water thread you joined:

1) pure water plus potassium bicarbonate: is a water proffered by HB member and Chemistry Professor, Dr. Robert Pavlis (recently deceased).
2) Dr. Pavlis also said that purified water (distilled nor DI), plus sodium bicarbonate is equally safe and good for your machine, but that he preferred the taste with potassium. It is purely subjective which you choose. Both are equally good for machine health.
3) Matt Perger (big shot Aussie barista), posted a blog where he also adds varying levels of magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts), to sodium bicarbonate water. This acts as a "hardness substitute", without having actual scale producing hardness to ruin your equipment. Hardness and "hardness substitute", strip more out of the grinds. This is physical reality. HOWEVER, as you may be reading in this thread, not everyone can tell the difference between Pavlis water (sodium or potassium bicarbonate only) and Perger water, (which adds magnesium sulphate to strip more from the grinds). I am undecided here myself in terms of taste.

One caveat to adding magnesium sulphate to your Pavlis water (which makes it into Perger water), is that if you don't use distilled or DI water, even RO might have small amounts carbonates which might combine with magnesium to make magnesium carbonate scale.

-Peter

#13: Post by **PandaSPUR** » May 4th, 2018, 12:44 pm

pcrussell50 wrote:From the LMLM thread:

I didn't mean to imply that you were. I was just trying to speak in general terms and you got caught up in the wheels.

A quick breakdown of what you've read here and in this water thread you joined:

1) pure water plus potassium bicarbonate: is a water proffered by HB member and Chemistry Professor, Dr. Robert Pavlis (recently deceased).
2) Dr. Pavlis also said that purified water (distilled nor DI), plus sodium bicarbonate is equally safe and good for your machine, but that he preferred the taste with potassium. It is purely subjective which you choose. Both are equally good for machine health.
3) Matt Perger (big shot Aussie barista), posted a blog where he also adds varying levels of magnesium sulphate (Epsom salts), to sodium bicarbonate water. This acts as a "hardness substitute", without having actual scale producing hardness to ruin your equipment. Hardness and "hardness substitute", strip more out of the grinds. This is physical reality. HOWEVER, as you may be reading in this thread, not everyone can tell the difference between Pavlis water (sodium or potassium bicarbonate only) and Perger water, (which adds magnesium sulphate to strip more from the grinds). I am undecided here myself in terms of taste.

One caveat to adding magnesium sulphate to your Pavlis water (which makes it into Perger water), is that if you don't use distilled or DI water, even RO might have small amounts carbonates which might combine with magnesium to make magnesium carbonate scale.

-Peter

No worries, I didnt assume you implied anything or take offense. Just not sure how I'd even categorize myself lol.

And thanks for the breakdown, thats all pretty interesting stuff. Now I just need to find a day where can i organize myself and get everything i need.

#14: Post by **slipchuck** » July 13th, 2018, 3:50 pm

Will the WLL recipe prevent scale in you espresso machine?

Thanks

Randy

#15: Post by **homeburrero** » July 13th, 2018, 8:15 pm

slipchuck wrote:Will the WLL recipe prevent scale in you espresso machine?

Using distilled, your final water ends up with 0.75 mmol/L MgSO4 and 0.89 mmol/L NaHCO3, which is a calcium hardness of 0 mg/L , total hardness of 75 mg/L, and total alkalinity of 45 mg/L (all CaCO3 equivalent.) Since the hardness is all magnesium and no calcium you would expect no scale.

The sulfate ion concentration of this water is 72 mg/L and the sodium ion is 20 mg/L. The sodium seems OK, but an arguable downside to this water is that sulfate ion - it probably causes no taste effects and certainly no digestive system effects at that level, but theoretically may have more potential for corrosion compared to water that just has carbonate minerals.*

You see the phrase "flavor enhancing magnesium" in marketing literature these days. I think the jury is still out on that claim.

* Note: One easy rule of thumb from the latest SCA water handbook is that if your water's hardness is no more than 80% higher than the alkalinity, you are probably OK with respect to corrosion from sulfates. This water is within that.