Hi all,

Newbie question here. Done to death I'm sure but I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.

I am about the pull the trigger on an ECM synchronika and I want to make sure I'm feeding it water that isn't too hard with the intention of reducing limescale build up.

Is it only the water hardness in ppm I need be concerned about? My simplistic plan was to measure water hardness in ppm from my tap using a basic test kit ( I expect it to be high hardness) and then repeat the test with water that has been passed through an existing brita jug filter that I already own.

Is this a good enough test or do I need to dive deeper?

Kind Regards

Daz

Hi all,

Just noticed on the ecm website that it suggests a water hardness of no more than 4dh, which I have worked out to be 71.2ppm

I am assuming therefore that if after passing my tap water through my brita water filter, the results meet the above criteria, flavour aside, I'm good to go?

Kind Regards

Darren....you might consider using R Pavlis water. It is discussed quite a bit on this water forum. I have been using R Pavlis water from day one with my Synchronika and am pleased with the results after 15 months. I have been using a gallon of distilled water mixed with .4 gram of potassium bicarbonate. There are other formulations making concentrates. I think you are very wise to make sure you have the proper water to keep your Sync healthy and happy.

Hi bobcat,

Really appreciate the feedback. Much appreciated.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the Synchronika! I'm just waiting for stock from my local dealer with the flow control installed. Just a couple of weeks apparently!

I suppose what I am trying to understand is, with the aim only at this stage being to reduce limescale, do I only need to concern myself with my water hardness level in the form of a single figure in ppm? And then, if the figure is reduced to appropriate levels using the brita filter I already have, can I then sit back, relax and know I am doing a good job in ensuring the longevity of my machine?

This is a complicated topic and I don't profess to understand it fully.

I think the problem with Brita is that unless you're testing your output regularly your output water will vary and hence you could end up with scaling issues without being aware.

Ultimately there is no perfect water and RPavlis is one solution which guarantees no scale issues. The trade off though is that ideal espresso water for taste is borderline hard enough to scale and there things get quite complicated quickly.

However, I can tell you that living in London where the tap water is essentially liquid chalk, I've been running on Tesco Ashbeck and I've recently come to the conclusion that that is near ideal for the machine out of the bottle. If I want to make a slight tweak it will be to throw in a pinch of potassium bicarbonate (£3 on ebay) everytime I open a new 5l bottle to drive the alkalinity a bit higher. Other people use Volvic, but that I think is borderline too hard, especially if you'll be steaming.

Oh and I chose an Izzo Duetto IV over a Syncronika a year ago and have been absolutely delighted with it - not to try and talk you out of it Choosing an Espresso Machine Rationally

Welcome and enjoy the journey!

Hey littlecoffee

Many thanks for replying. You make a valid point. I guess a reduction in limescale build up can be bettered by no limescale build up.

You also make a point regarding the brita. I could of course regularly test the output of that but that in itself is a hassle and additional expense. I have heard about the ashbeck water. Have you ever tested it? Any ideas what the hardness is?

Another question, how long can you leave the water in the reservoir?

No I need to take a look at the Izzo

Never tested Ashbeck but it is very soft so it's a long way away from scaling. Potential problem with Ashbeck that it's so soft it becomes a bit corrosive due to low Ph, but my Izzo has been running on it for a year with zero issues. I think a pinch of potassium bicarbonate /5l is zero additional effort and will be near ideal for the machine. For taste it's too soft, but for me the machine was a very expensive purchase I prefer to look after.

Here's my maths which also has Ashbeck numbers: Scale vs. corrosion risk - have never tested it as I only just got into the water a year in so to speak.

awesome, thank you again.

One final question, you mention the taste was too soft. Are you referring to drinking it as water or the coffee produced by using it?

I suppose what I am trying to understand is, with the aim only at this stage being to reduce limescale, do I only need to concern myself with my water hardness level in the form of a single figure in ppm? And then, if the figure is reduced to appropriate levels using the brita filter I already have, can I then sit back, relax and know I am doing a good job in ensuring the longevity of my machine?

Darren.....I don't consider myself capable of giving you the answer you seek...BUT....there are water experts on this forum that will answer your questions. Homeburrero can definitely tell you what to do!

Dazgough wrote:Just noticed on the ecm website that it suggests a water hardness of no more than 4dh, which I have worked out to be 71.2ppm
I am assuming therefore that if after passing my tap water through my brita water filter, the results meet the above criteria, flavour aside, I'm good to go?

That advice from the ecm website is simplified. Water with that amount of hardness will not give you heavy scale issues, but may accumulate scale depending on the alkalinity, and if so you would need to periodically descale. To get a better idea of scale accumulation you need to consider both hardness and alkalinity. The standard reference source would be Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ. Some recent discussion can also be found here: Scale vs. corrosion risk

The other big factor you need is the chloride content of your tap water. It's usually not a problem but some areas have high chloride in the tap water, which is a corrosion concern. (Note: chloride is not the same thing as chlorine. Your Brita handles chlorine but not chloride.) If your chloride ion level is above 15 - 50 mg/L, you can go to bottled water, recipe water, or use an RO system to remove the chloride. To get chloride numbers you can usually look at local water reports or contact your water authority.