Water filtrations suggestions; chloride is high

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Arafel

#1: Post by Arafel »

I have on order a Specht LMLM and want to plumb it in for convenience, since I've on more than one occasion forgot to refill my tank and run out of water while pulling a shot. It will also save me the trouble of driving to Whole Foods to refill RO water and then add the Third Wave packets.

I was curious, so I sent in for an Optipure test and the results came back a little surprising. I've used an electric TDS meter before on water in my house and got 155 or so. The Optipure test said it was 255. Also the chloride was 32, which is outside the range for LMLM.

Prima recommended an RO+remin system for me, but it's over $2k and not sure I can afford that right now. Does anyone have any other suggestions for a filtration system? FYI, I live in Denver, and I know the water quality here fluctuates with the seasons, as Denver water is mostly snowmelt based.

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homeburrero
Team HB

#2: Post by homeburrero »

I think I gave most of my opinion in your earlier post but will weigh in anyway to see if it might spur more response to this post.


Arafel wrote:I was curious, so I sent in for an Optipure test and the results came back a little surprising. I've used an electric TDS meter before on water in my house and got 155 or so. The Optipure test said it was 255. Also the chloride was 32, which is outside the range for LMLM.
I wish that Optipure water test did a better job of describing their methods and precision. TDS can be measured by evaporating the sample and weighing the result, or can be roughly estimated using a conductivity meter. TDS meter measurements can vary widely depending on the temperature and on the calibration factor used. If you measure with the water at 25C (77F) you have a better chance of getting a good result. And most inexpensive meters use a calibration factor of 0.5, whereas many labs use a calibration factor of 0.6 - 0.7 to convert conductivity in uS/cm to ppm. So your reading of 155 ppm would agree with their reading of around 217.

The chloride number here is the rub. There is nothing hard about that 30 mg/L limit that La Marzocco currently recommends. In earlier operator manuals for the LMLM it was 50 mg/L. And Synesso would say to keep it below 15 mg/L. And my guess, depending on where in Denver you live, you may see your chloride number drop after the Moffat water plant comes back online. (See Filtration to plumb in, Denver )

If you want to plumb in, and don't want to lug water from the store to fill carboys (the Espresso Cart - Goodbye Plumbed In solution) AND if you want no worry at all about chloride corrosion now or in the future, I think you are looking at RO treatment. An inexpensive system (Homemaster, iSpring, APEC, etc) with a remineralizer cartridge would give you soft Seattle-like water with very low chloride content.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

Arafel (original poster)

#3: Post by Arafel (original poster) »

homeburrero wrote:I think I gave most of my opinion in your earlier post but will weigh in anyway to see if it might spur more response to this post.



I wish that Optipure water test did a better job of describing their methods and precision. TDS can be measured by evaporating the sample and weighing the result, or can be roughly estimated using a conductivity meter. TDS meter measurements can vary widely depending on the temperature and on the calibration factor used. If you measure with the water at 25C (77F) you have a better chance of getting a good result. And most inexpensive meters use a calibration factor of 0.5, whereas many labs use a calibration factor of 0.6 - 0.7 to convert conductivity in uS/cm to ppm. So your reading of 155 ppm would agree with their reading of around 217.

The chloride number here is the rub. There is nothing hard about that 30 mg/L limit that La Marzocco currently recommends. In earlier operator manuals for the LMLM it was 50 mg/L. And Synesso would say to keep it below 15 mg/L. And my guess, depending on where in Denver you live, you may see your chloride number drop after the Moffat water plant comes back online. (See Filtration to plumb in, Denver )

If you want to plumb in, and don't want to lug water from the store to fill carboys (the Espresso Cart - Goodbye Plumbed In solution) AND if you want no worry at all about chloride corrosion now or in the future, I think you are looking at RO treatment. An inexpensive system (Homemaster, iSpring, APEC, etc) with a remineralizer cartridge would give you soft Seattle-like water with very low chloride content.
Thank you. I've been doing a lot of research, and I'm going with a Living Water RO+Reminarilzer+TDS Needle for full control. It's a very affordable system. And while the chlorid isn't too high, LMLMdoes recommend not going over 20.

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homeburrero
Team HB

#4: Post by homeburrero »

Arafel wrote:Thank you. I've been doing a lot of research, and I'm going with a Living Water RO+Reminarilzer+TDS Needle for full control. It's a very affordable system.
Looks like a good choice to me. It's interesting that it appears to have a remin finishing cartridge as well as a precision blending valve. Be aware that if you try to get high TDS via blending you may be introducing more chloride than you want. Please let us know how it works out for you. I think I've seen only one other HB member who has reported going with this system - 1 year BWT Bestmax Premium update and looking for RO water system .


Arafel wrote:And while the chlorid isn't too high, LMLM does recommend not going over 20.
That's interesting - I've not seen that number in the manuals or guidance I've come across from LM, only 50 ppm in the older manuals and 30 ppm in the version 2.0 manual. If you have a link to that guidance please share.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

nguye569
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#5: Post by nguye569 »

What are you using for remineralizing? I'm thinking about going RO route now, but having trouble (or don't know how to search) for reminerlizers.

My chloride sits between 31 and 37, and I just had limescale related issues causing some valves not to open and close properly, so now I want to be safer for the future.

katkat
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#6: Post by katkat »

Arafel wrote:I've been doing a lot of research, and I'm going with a Living Water RO+Reminarilzer+TDS Needle for full control. It's a very affordable system.
I would also be interested to know how it works for you and the remin performance (TDS value without blending back any water.) It is definitely a very interesting option on paper: affordable system and filters, 1 year filter life, 1:1 ratio, 2 GPM flow (the only one I found that matches La Marzocco's specs.) The manufacturer seems less known than some others and is definitely not easy to find using a Google search...