Water filter for La Marzocco

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
Noplacetobe
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#1: Post by Noplacetobe »

I have a ECM Synchronica that is connected to the main water supply via a BWT " Bestprotect" waterfilter. The manufacturer states : " This filter system ensures balanced mineralisation and a consistently high pH value in the filtrate - key factors that minimise the risk of corrosion."

After approximately 1 year the vacuum breaker started to leak and needed replacement:

https://tweakers.net/fotoalbum/image/r ... h5pZh0.jpg

I sended a sample of the water from the filter to a laboratory and this are the results:

Total hardness = < 0,5 Dg and chlorine = 68 ppm. Other parameters like iron where ok.

La Marzocco states that the chlorine value is to high and that a carbon filter is needed. I could put an extra BWT "Besttaste" filter in. My question is do I need to put the carbon filter before or after the hardness filter ?

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homeburrero
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#2: Post by homeburrero »

Noplacetobe wrote:Total hardness = < 0,5 Dg and chlorine = 68 ppm. Other parameters like iron where ok.
That hardness number looks like the Bestprotect is currently doing its softening job. Eventually it might become exhausted and if that happens your hardness would increase. The bestprotect specs tell you the capacity of these filters.

68 ppm chlorine is not realistic unless you're putting bleach in your water. Are you sure that's not a chloride number?

If you have 68 ppm chloride then you may have corrosion risk from that, and unfortunately the only practical way of reducing high chloride is to use a reverse osmosis (RO) system. Charcoal filters adsorb chlorine and chloramine but not high chloride.


Noplacetobe wrote:La Marzocco states that the chlorine value is to high and that a carbon filter is needed. I could put an extra BWT "Besttaste" filter in. My question is do I need to put the carbon filter before or after the hardness filter ?
I think you are confusing chlorine and chloride here. La Marzocco wants the chlorine to be near zero and the chloride ion to be below 30 ppm. And if chloride is high they recommend RO + remineralization.

Note that your BWT Bestprotect already has charcoal both before an after the softening resin layer. If you really wanted to add more charcoal you could add it before or after that bestprotect. (Some people who have high chloramine in their water and find that objectionable might elect to add extra charcoal filtration or a filter that uses a charcoal that is optimized or certified for chloramine removal.)
Pat
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Noplacetobe (original poster)
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#3: Post by Noplacetobe (original poster) »

Oeps, you are right. It is Chloride :oops:

So the best option i have is reverse osmose with remineralisation?

Noplacetobe (original poster)
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#4: Post by Noplacetobe (original poster) »

homeburrero wrote:If you have 68 ppm chloride then you may have corrosion risk from that, and unfortunately the only practical way of reducing high chloride is to use a reverse osmosis (RO) system. Charcoal filters adsorb chlorine and chloramine but not high chloride.
I found 2 filters that reduce chloride :

Brita Purity C1100 XtraSafe
Pentair Claris Prime

The problem with the Pentair seems that it lowers also the ph value of the water. My incoming water has a ph of 6,1 so the result after filtering it would be bad.

I can't find anything about the Brita, but I have a feeling that it work in the same way. I guess it wil be a RO system.

I am looking at the Pentair Everpure Conserv 75E or the BWT bestaqua ROC Coffee. But maybe there are better options out there.

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homeburrero
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#5: Post by homeburrero »

Noplacetobe wrote:I found 2 filters that reduce chloride :

Brita Purity C1100 XtraSafe
Pentair Claris Prime
Good point. We've had some HB discussion about the Claris Prime a while back, here: Water advice before plumbing - collecting data... . But I don't think it's a practical solution for home use. That XtraSafe is a similar idea - Is a total demineralization (cation exchange resin followed by an anion exchange resin) cartridge with an adjustable bypass(0% - 70%) head. ( per https://www.brita.co.uk/dam/jcr:7cc65cf ... -en-GB.pdf ). It may be practical - - it's pricy at nearly 400 Euro, but reportedly can treat in the 2000 liter ballpark depending on hardness and bypass.


Mixed bed cation+anion exchange filtration is familiar and often practical in the form of the ZeroWater pitcher filter for producing de-ionized water. It removes pretty much everything, which gives you a consistent base water that you remineralize and get the water you want. I believe that the new Peak precision filters are dual (cation + anion) resin, which should reduce chloride and sulfate. But that's another pitcher filter, and I haven't seen performance or capacity specs for that one.
Pat
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Coloury
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#6: Post by Coloury »

homeburrero wrote:Good point. We've had some HB discussion about the Claris Prime a while back, here: Water advice before plumbing - collecting data... . But I don't think it's a practical solution for home use. That XtraSafe is a similar idea - Is a total demineralization (cation exchange resin followed by an anion exchange resin) cartridge with an adjustable bypass(0% - 70%) head. ( per https://www.brita.co.uk/dam/jcr:7cc65cf ... -en-GB.pdf ). It may be practical - - it's pricy at nearly 400 Euro, but reportedly can treat in the 2000 liter ballpark depending on hardness and bypass.
Besides price, are there any other reasons why you would decide against the XtraSafe? I'm able to find it for around €200, so it's be an interesting option for me living in a 100mg/l+ chloride area.

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homeburrero
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#7: Post by homeburrero »

Coloury wrote:Besides price, are there any other reasons why you would decide against the XtraSafe? I'm able to find it for around €200, so it's be an interesting option for me living in a 100mg/l+ chloride area.
I just noticed that the same discussion is happening in two threads here. The XtraSafe does look interesting but still is hard for me to tell how it might perform. More of my opinion specific to your water here: Is RO water my only option due to high chloride?

Edit addition:
Further discussion related to the Prime and XtraSafe filters and chloride reduction can be found in that other thread: Is RO water my only option due to high chloride?
Pat
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chewraisins
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#8: Post by chewraisins »

Sorry to hijack the thread.. I just ordered a Linea Micra and wanted to make sure that I use good water with it. I am looking at water filter options but in the meantime I plan to buy bottled distilled water and use RPavlis recipe using 84mg/l Sodium Bicarb while waiting for the Potassium Bicarb (100mg/l) to arrive.

My understanding of distilled water is that it should be pure H2O only. However, most of the bottled distilled water that I can find in supermarkets here show the following on their labels.

Attributes Per 100ml
Energy 0kcal
Protein 0g
Total Fat 0g
Saturated Fat 0g
Trans Fat 0g
Cholesterol 0mg
Carbohydrate 0g
Dietary Fibre 0g
Sodium 0.2mg

Should I be concerned about this Sodium content? Should the recipe be adjusted?

Cheers,
Andrew

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homeburrero
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#9: Post by homeburrero »

chewraisins wrote:Should I be concerned about this Sodium content? Should the recipe be adjusted?
No, that's just 2 mg/L (2 ppm) of sodium, which is essentially nothing. That report doesn't tell you much at all, but it's likely pure enough for use in a recipe that calls for distilled. If you want more assurance about that you can use an inexpensive conductivity TDS meter. If the water is sold as drinking water and it reads less than 20 ppm it should be good enough for making rpavlis or other recipe waters. In the US we have labelling regulations for purified drinking water that assures that it's less than a few ppm as long as the label doesn't also indicate "with minerals added".
Pat
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chewraisins
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#10: Post by chewraisins »

Thank you for the kind reply. It is clear.
I will order the Zerowater filter and pitcher from Amazon and use it as the base water.. :D