Hi there

I'm reopening a discussion of an old thread, basically I have a Faema E61 Legend which I want to use at home and I'm looking for cartridge softener. I have seen that both Brita and BWT ( The only 2 company that I know for cartridge softener) both offers a hydrogen ion reduction and a sodium ion reduction which should be :

Na+ with Ca++ e Mg++ for total hardness reduction

H+ with Ca++ e Mg++ for temporary hardness reduction.

I have just completely restored my faema E61 and I would like to maintain it in good status for quite some time but from the other side I have red that having to much sodium inside the water it's not good for health (even of I'm not an expert about that! ). So considering that I have water of about 25 ° F do you think that the hydrogen reduction could be enough to save my faema from limestone deposition ?

Anyone?

What is the chemistry of your water? My view is you need to have a clear understanding of that is before one proceeds down the solution path.

I agree with Jack - depends on your water.

Assuming that your water does need softening, the choice between the two types of cation exchange softeners is highly dependent on the carbonate alkalinity and also the sulfate and the chloride levels of your water. See this thread if you haven't already: Warning: Chloride & sulfate levels with weak acid cation softeners (e.g., Everpure Claris)

The key point from the Pentair/Everpure documents is:
• Claris (like other WAC products) is great for water with bicarbonate levels above 100 and low chloride and sulfate levels less than 80ppm and 150 ppm respectively.

WAC above refers to 'weak acid cation' exchange - resins that replace the hardness minerals (Ca++ and Mg++) with hydrogen ions (H+). Also frequently referred to as decarbonizers. Conventional softeners (strong acid cation) replace the hardness minerals with either sodium or potassium ions (Na+ or K+).

Note: I believe the latest WAC cartridges like the Everpure ESO7 may be a little improved by adding back some buffer when the pH gets low as compared to the ones in those 2014 discussions.

homeburrero wrote:Assuming that your water does need softening...

lightbar wrote:So considering that I water of about 25 ° F ...

Just now noticed that you said '25 ° F '. (25 french degrees is equivalent to 250 mg/l as CaCO3.) So clearly you need some serious softening. Ideally your alkalinity is also up in that range. To get chloride and sulfate numbers you may need to ask your water utility.

I think it's 25 French degree (declared value from water distributor in my city) or even more. So you think that H exchange would be not enough?
I was thinking about getting the Brita quell st or the BWT Bestmax balance which also is declared to maintain the ph above 6.5. Both ate Hydrogen ion exchange I think.

Before choosing a hydrogen exchange (aka WAC filter, decarbonization filter, saltless softening) you need to to know how much of that 250 mg/L total hardness is carbonate hardness, and also have an idea of the sulfate and chloride content of your water.

If you just stick with conventional softening there are issues with water that hard. If you used a sodium salt you would end up with almost 115 mg/L sodium - might be wiser to use a potassium salt. After conventional softening your carbonate alkalinity would stay the same as your untreated water, which would be fine for keeping your machine in good shape but may be less than ideal for taste if it's above, say, 100 mg/L as CaCO3 (10 french degrees, 2 mEq/L).

lightbar wrote:I was thinking about getting the Brita quell st or the BWT Bestmax balance which also is declared to maintain the ph above 6.5. Both ate Hydrogen ion exchange I think.

The Quell ST is what Brita calls a 'decarbonation' filter - which does use hydrogen exchange and reduces alkalinity. I think the Brita Purity Finest C is a conventional softener in cartridge form.

But the BWT Bestmax balance is a different animal - it appears to be a cation and anion exchanger that removes all ions - sort of like a ZeroWater filter. It's somewhat comparable to an RO with a bypass.** If you go that route, your water is hard enough that you may need a high capacity filter - Their highest capacity filter would cost you over 200 Euro per year and supposedly* will treat 7800 liters at 10 German degrees, (which would be about 5500 liters at 25 French degrees).

It might be worthwhile to check with some small local coffee shops about what systems might be good for your very hard local water. Also, would be good to know more about your water. If most of that 250 mg/L hardness is associated with sulfate or chloride then I think you would be wise to consider RO or perhaps that BWT bestmax balance. For the latter I'd want to talk to BWT or a knowledgeable vendor and make sure it's a good fit for your particular water before purchasing.


* https://www.stoll-espresso.de/zubehoer- ... -646?c=216

** [Edit addition] Newer information on that filter makes it more clear that it is just a decarbonizing (WAC resin, hydrogen ion exchange) filter similar to the Bestmax premium but available at seven different capacities and with some antimicrobial silver treatment.
(https://www.bwt.com/en/-/media/bwt/glob ... ac2293350b )

I have checked on the city water distrubutor websiste and there the data they are reporting:

MEDIUM VALUE LIMITS OF LAW UNIT OF MEASUREMENT

PH 7.5 pH unit
ALCOHOLICITY 439 - mg / l HCO3-
TOTAL DURATION 25 ° F (french degree)


AMMONIUM <0.05 mg / l
ARSENIC <1 μg / l
CALCIUM 76 - mg / l
CHLORINE RESIDUE 0.22 - mg / l Cl2
CHLORIDE 49 mg / l
CONDUCTIVITY 717 µS/cm
FLUORIDE 0.1 mg / l
MAGNESIUM 22 - mg / l
MANGANESE 9 g / l
NITRATE 23 mg / l
NITRITE <0.02 mg / l
POTASSIUM 2 - mg / l
RESIDUO FIXED 523 mg / l
SODIUM 36 mg / l
SULPHATE 56 mg / l

A frineds of mine which is a chemist says that around my home the most of the hardness is because of calcium salts.

Consider that I'll use the machine for an home use so I think that I can make an entire year with a single cartridge.

lightbar wrote:ALCOHOLICITY 439 - mg / l HCO3-

That looks a little fishy -- too high considering that your cations (Ca++, Mg++, Mn++, K+, Na+) and anions (SO4--, HCO3-, Cl-, NO3-) should be roughly balanced in chemical equivalences. Are you sure it doesn't say 43.9 mg/l HCO3- ?

I'm sorry I have translated badly, it's ALKALINITY (not ALCOHOLICITY)