Hi

Could some one tell me if my water will cause a scale in my machine and if i should use the BWT filter Bestsave M ?

The only thing missing in the picture is alkalinity which according to Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ will be around 21.32 ( the bicarbonate multiplied by 0.82 )

Here is my water parameters



I would truly appreciate the help

No, this should not cause scaling in any significant quantity.

I agree, this would be non-scaling.

Medo wrote:The only thing missing in the picture is alkalinity which according to Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ will be around 21.32 ( the bicarbonate multiplied by 0.82 )

Yes, that's the correct conversion here. (Also is an excellent reference.)

Medo wrote: . . . and if i should use the BWT filter Bestsave M ?

That would not be a good idea here. The Bestsave contains a decarbonizing resin that reduces both the hardness and the alkalinity together, and your alkalinity is already on the low side and your water has a little chloride in it.

That water looks very similar to Nestle's Gerber Pure - non-scaling but not what I'd call ideal for espresso machine use because of the 19 mg/L chloride and low alkalinity.

Ciaran wrote:No, this should not cause scaling in any significant quantity.

Thank for your response much appreciated

homeburrero wrote:I agree, this would be non-scaling.

Yes, that's the correct conversion here. (Also is an excellent reference.)

That would not be a good idea here. The Bestsave is a decarbonizing resin that reduces both the hardness and the alkalinity together, and your alkalinity is already on the low side and your water has a little chloride in it.

That water looks very similar to Nestle's Gerber Pure - non-scaling but not what I'd call ideal for espresso machine use because of the 19 mg/L chloride and low alkalinity.

Hi thank you for your detailed response

I would trade a little on the taste side if thats whats gonna takes to prevent scale build up

The problem is i cant find any better bottled water other then the one I mentioned

homeburrero wrote:That water looks very similar to Nestle's Gerber Pure - non-scaling but not what I'd call ideal for espresso machine use because of the 19 mg/L chloride and low alkalinity.

How about if i increase the alkalinity for this water
By either using bicarbonate sodium or potassium will that get me in the sweet spot ?

If yes which one is better considering my sodium level ?

Someone put me into this and I like the results so far. I was looking for a softer espresso water with around 40 ppm alkalinity. It's very easy to make and i like the fact that it's low in sulfate and chlorides. If you try to make this with the usual minerals available you get much higher of both. Mix 150ml of Evian with 850 ml distilled water. This gives you calcium 29, mag 15, alk 44 (caco3 equiv). 1.5 mg sulphate and 0.75 chloride. As far as i know this should be fine for machine health and scale. Evian is not the cheapest but one bottle goes quite a way. You may be able to find another water with similar ratios to evian and could dilute that in appropriate quantities


Moderator (homeburrero) addition:
This was also posted in the topic: Water on the brain: my imperfect recipe
where I responded to it before seeing it here. It's a good idea, and if anyone wants to follow on with further discussion it would be best to post in that other thread so that everything is in one place.

Medo wrote:How about if i increase the alkalinity for this water
By either using bicarbonate sodium or potassium will that get me in the sweet spot ?

If yes which one is better considering my sodium level ?

Spiking it with a little bicarbonate would certainly do the job of getting it up to the usual recommended alkalinity of 40 mg/L or more. To bump it up by 20 mg/L (alkalinity in CaCO3 equivalent) you would add 40 mg/L of potassium bicarbonate or 34 mg/L sodium bicarbonate*. Either would work fine, although if you add a lot there are arguments in favor of potassium so that you don't increase the sodium much. (Coffee is already high in potassium so you can add lots of that and not worry that it may be affecting taste.)

Adding such small amounts is tricky but is easily accomplished by using a concentrate. If you make up a concentrate by adding 5g of potassium bicarb (or 4g of sodium bicarb) to a liter of water, then add 8 ml (8 g) of that concentrate to each liter of your bottled water, you will bump your alkalinity by about 20 mg/L, putting you at about 41 mg/L.



*note that 2 mg/L of potassium bicarbonate is chemically equivalent to 1 mg/L of CaCO3 - CaCO3 neutralizes twice as much acid as does KHCO3.

lukehk wrote:Someone put me into this and I like the results so far. I was looking for a softer espresso water with around 40 ppm alkalinity. It's very easy to make and i like the fact that it's low in sulfate and chlorides. If you try to make this with the usual minerals available you get much higher of both. Mix 150ml of Evian with 850 ml distilled water. This gives you calcium 29, mag 15, alk 44 (caco3 equiv). 1.5 mg sulphate and 0.75 chloride. As far as i know this should be fine for machine health and scale. Evian is not the cheapest but one bottle goes quite a way. You may be able to find another water with similar ratios to evian and could dilute that in appropriate quantities


Moderator (homeburrero) addition:
This was also posted in the topic: Water on the brain: my imperfect recipe
where I responded to it before seeing it here. It's a good idea, and if anyone wants to follow on with further discussion it would be best to post in that other thread so that everything is in one place.

Thanks for the replay , that's definitely better option if i could find Evian water near me

homeburrero wrote:Spiking it with a little bicarbonate would certainly do the job of getting it up to the usual recommended alkalinity of 40 mg/L or more. To bump it up by 20 mg/L (alkalinity in CaCO3 equivalent) you would add 40 mg/L of potassium bicarbonate or 34 mg/L sodium bicarbonate*. Either would work fine, although if you add a lot there are arguments in favor of potassium so that you don't increase the sodium much. (Coffee is already high in potassium so you can add lots of that and not worry that it may be affecting taste.)

Adding such small amounts is tricky but is easily accomplished by using a concentrate. If you make up a concentrate by adding 5g of potassium bicarb (or 4g of sodium bicarb) to a liter of water, then add 8 ml (8 g) of that concentrate to each liter of your bottled water, you will bump your alkalinity by about 20 mg/L, putting you at about 41 mg/L.



*note that 2 mg/L of potassium bicarbonate is chemically equivalent to 1 mg/L of CaCO3 - CaCO3 neutralizes twice as much acid as does KHCO3.

Thank you so much , i will test the water before and after and will post the result i already ordered ph + Tds + kh - gh test kit and 4oz of potassium bicarbonate which should last a long time

One last question just to be sure the water to be used for buffer concentrate Is distilled water right ?

Medo wrote:One last question just to be sure the water to be used for buffer concentrate Is distilled water right ?

Ideally, yes, although in the case of concentrate it doesn't matter so much -- since you're adding so little of it to your final water.

I got my tds meter today and my kh test kit i also installed an ro system for my house now I'm even more confused to which water i should use , I set up my ro system and i tested the tds ( 100) and i tested the kh with API kit and it took only 3 drop to go from blue to yellow which translate to 0-50 ppm according to conversion chart , i also tested the bottled water i included And it was 120 tds so i guess my tds meter is calibrated Also I tested the ro system ph and it was around 7 to 7.2


Is there a way i can calculate the general hardness from the given numbers or is it the same as alkalinity when they both in neutral ph according to my understanding ?

I'm leaning towered the ro water cause of no chloride and less plastic but i dont know if its healthy enough for my machine