TN Water Results and Advice

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
ShadowBrew

#1: Post by ShadowBrew »

Hey everyone,

My new machine should be arriving soon. Im trying to figure out what to do about water. The new machine is a Synesso MVP Hydra single group. I had my water tested with the optipure test kit. Id like to plumb in directly.

Synesso used to say under 15ppm for chloride but their most recent manuals say 0. Any suggestions?

I've looked at the BWS175 as far as RO goes but I don't want to spend 2k for filtration. Are their any other direct plumbing RO systems that would work?

As for more traditional filters I'm kind of lost as the data sheets mostly only talk in total hardness so I'm not quite sure which type if any would work.

Here are my results.

ShadowBrew (original poster)

#2: Post by ShadowBrew (original poster) »

I did hear back that the 5-15ppm chloride is the right guidance so I guess my goal is to reduce the hardness without lowering the pH and maybe a slight reduction in alkalinity. From reading through the forums it's my understanding that the bestmax premium would probably drop the pH as it's a WAC system. One vendor suggested a eso-7 filter.

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homeburrero
Team HB

#3: Post by homeburrero »

ShadowBrew wrote:Synesso used to say under 15ppm for chloride but their most recent manuals say 0. Any suggestions?
Synesso's chloride advice is a little muddled. It was 0 mg/L (which is just unrealistic) then changed it to 15 mg/L, and now (in the latest 2020 MVP manual) is "5-15 ppm - any Chlorides can be corrosive and harmful" . I once corresponded with them and they verified that they intend to say that the max allowable chloride is somewhere between 5 and 15 mg/L - they certainly don't intend to say that 10 mg/L is better than 0 mg/L. Maybe the best way to interpret that advice is that if you know your pH and alkalinity is good, or if you just feel lucky, then you can get away with 15 mg/L; if you are unsure then consider going to RO if your chloride is above 5 mg/L. Synesso is more conservative than most about chloride -- La Marzocco USA recommends RO if the water has more than 30 mg/L chloride.
ShadowBrew wrote:From reading through the forums it's my understanding that the bestmax premium would probably drop the pH as it's a WAC system. One vendor suggested a eso-7 filter.
The BWT bestmax does use a WAC resin, but so does the ESO-7. A conventional softener (SAC resin, sodium ion exchange) that does not reduce the alkalinity would be far better here - you want to keep that 80 mg/L alkalinity for chloride corrosion mitigation but drastically drop that 6.2 gpg (106 mg/L) hardness to avoid scale issues.

If you get a fancy RO like the BWS175 you can use the blending valve plus the remin cartridge with this water to get reasonable hardness and alkalinity with less than 5 ppm chloride. Or go with a more affordable RO with just a simple remin cartridge. That would give you soft Seattle-like water with no chloride and no scale issues.
Pat
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ShadowBrew (original poster)

#4: Post by ShadowBrew (original poster) »

Thanks for the info!

With regard to RO systems do most of them put out a high enough psi? Synesso requires 50psi at .5gpm but I've seen most tanks operate less than that but I don't know if that is the same as output psi.

Are their any recommendations on SAC filters and/or Chloramine filters?

So far I've looked at the BWT bestprotect, homeland filter system from Clive, a triple 10" setup with carbon/sediment filters and a softening cartridge.

For Chloramine I'm not seeing much other than the optipure one cto-qtcr


As a side question related to RO. I currently have a tankless RO system under my sink for drinking water. ( water drop g3 400gpd across the room from espresso machine.) could I add a T in with a check valve, place one of the espresso remin cartridges in line and then use a long section of hose to fill at tank with a flojet or something similar? I mainly don't want to deal with mixing water so if there was a way to 'automate' the remineralization it might be worth dealing with a tank underneath.

With regard to making my own water what's the easiest way to mix it? Add a concentrate and swirl around or does it require more vigorous mixing?

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homeburrero
Team HB

#5: Post by homeburrero »

ShadowBrew wrote:With regard to RO systems do most of them put out a high enough psi? Synesso requires 50psi at .5gpm but I've seen most tanks operate less than that but I don't know if that is the same as output psi.
I'm no expert on RO and plumbing stuff, but I believe that's something you would handle if you have low line pressure with an electric booster pump before the RO and a pressure switch on the line at the tank. Then a regulator on the machine feed if you want precise line pressure to the machine. (It may be worth watching this post related to line pressure: Espresso Care - Refinements for line in Pre Infusion )

ShadowBrew wrote:Are their any recommendations on SAC filters and/or Chloramine filters?
So far I've looked at the BWT bestprotect, homeland filter system from Clive, a triple 10" setup with carbon/sediment filters and a softening cartridge.
For Chloramine I'm not seeing much other than the optipure one cto-qtcr
I think you've found some good ones. With the 10" generic you can choose from many different filters to suit your needs, and replace the carbon/charcoal every 6 months or year, and then change the softener more frequently if needed based on your hardness and water use. You should be able to use just two filters, one conventional softener and another for chlorine/chloramine,and particulates. The Pentek ChlorPlus 10 is one example.

The single cartridge (charcoal and softener) options like Homeland or BWT bestprotect would give you the convenience of a single change. Another single cartridge system with conventional softening is the Cuno 3M ESP124 and 114.

ShadowBrew wrote:With regard to making my own water what's the easiest way to mix it? Add a concentrate and swirl around or does it require more vigorous mixing?
If your concentrate bottle is non-cloudy and has no sediment I think it should be fine to just add it to your reservoir or brew water bottle and not worry about mixing. When adding salts, the bicarbonate-only (rpavlis) recipes dissolve rapidly with a little swirling. Epsom salt can take a while, maybe even best to give it an overnight to fully dissolve.
Pat
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