RPavlis water formula and ZeroWater

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.

#1: Post by No_cureEspresso »

To ALL HB members, staff and families: hope everyone will remain safe as we jointly fight this COVID-19 virus. We will overcome this - just stay caffeinated (some say drinking hot liquids frequently helps).

Since I purchased my Profitec Pro 700 w/ flow control last Christmas, I've strictly used rpavlis water formula:

1. concentrate = mixed 97g of pure KHCO3 powder into 1 gallon of distilled water
2. Brew water = always added 14.79 - 15 mL (1 tablespoon) to 1 gallon of distilled water

So my question is this: can I substitute ZeroWater for the distilled H2O?. There is nowhere to buy it distilled H2O given this cray-cray situation.

What do the experts say? This is one situation where I wished for direct connection...but alas, I don't have a spare 2 grand lying around for this setup https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/opti ... 2-optip-pp

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Moka 1 Cup

#2: Post by Moka 1 Cup »

I am no expert however I have been using Zerowater since May of last year and I'm vari happy with it.

These is my recipe: Distilled / Potassium Bicarbonate Water with Fill Sensor
four minutes to make an espresso? really?


#3: Post by shotwell »

Many grocers have DI water filling stations at the store. As far as I know service should be uninterrupted for those almost everywhere. I've been using de-ionized water in a refillable jug for some time, but there's no reason you couldn't take in an old plastic jug and refill it.

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#4: Post by sweaner »

I would think that you can substitute ZeroWater for distilled, no problem.
LMWDP #248


#5: Post by No_cureEspresso »

Thank you all - will stick to ZW!

PS does anyone know the pH level of ZW? Don't have any test strips and can't order any time soon


#6: Post by Nate42 »

Zero water is effectively DI water. It removes essentially all mineral or salt content making it a perfect base for your water recipe of choice. Like any high purity water zero water will start with a pH of 7 but will gradually decrease as it dissolves CO2 from the air. This isn't particularly relevant though as it has very little buffering capacity. Just about any water recipe contains significant bicarbonate which will more than neutralize the small amount of acidity. I wouldn't recommend putting untreated zero water in your boiler or otherwise in contact with metal as it can be corrosive. But once it has been treated with bicarbonate this is not a concern.

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Moka 1 Cup

#7: Post by Moka 1 Cup »

I tested it when I started using it and it was acid. By memory the Ph was about 5.
About 8 after adding the potassium bicarbonate.

Here it is: How pleased are you with ZeroWater solution?
four minutes to make an espresso? really?


#8: Post by No_cureEspresso »

Thank you - much obliged for everyone's input! Glad that I can count on ZeroWater. Nowadays it seems harder to find water with a great "safe for machine/taste" ratio as opposed to fantastic beans!! FYI Whole Latte Love is open for business and ordered some Italian blends ( Danesi Gold & Lavazza gold ).

So far 1 for 2. Now The Other Half is an engineer and thinks that I need to adjust the concentration and brew ratio - says it's not enough ions in the water for both proper extraction and proper pH level . I searched extensively on this site and I disagree: I think the formula I posted above is right on the money: it's straight from Dr Pavlis himself!

Can I ask you to please validate?

PSA - please everyone be safe and practice common sense, social distancing. My brother in law is Doctor in Epidemiology - not enough is known about this particular strand of Coronavirus, and younger generation is at risk as well despite what we may hear. It's critical to understand that one of the biggest ways to stop pathogens from spreading is:
1. By breaking the chain of transmission - that way the pathogens won't have a hospitable environment to mutate (split cells/Replicate) although it can live outside the host for some time (ie door knobs, countertops), it cannot replicate so it will die
2. One other is more morbid: reducing the number of susceptible individuals through vaccination or because of those infected either die or recover and get immunity

Not much we can do wrt #2, but we can control the former: so STAY at home, be safe and drink your espresso!


#9: Post by Kran »

Just an added data point about Zero Water. I've been using Zero Water filtered water exclusively in my 2.5 year old VBM JR HX. When I added the Lelit flow control paddle to the machine about a month ago this is what the E61 top bolt and jet looked like:


Not sure if this is typical or excessive so no conclusion on my part, just a FYI.


#10: Post by No_cureEspresso »

Good input, thanks!

But for clarification: did you use ZeroWater by itself, or with buffering solution like potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3)? If by itself, the ZeroWater is too acidic (~ 5 pH per Moka 1 Cup's post above) and will start to damage the internals...which might explain why your machine mushroom looks like that.

My point is that Dr. Pavlis' water formula has been bullet proof for quite some time: given the feedback received in this thread, it seems that swapping distilled water with ZeroWater shouldn't change the chemical composition, without any damaging effect to either the machine nor the espresso taste.