Reverse Osmosis vs Softener

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
bravozulu
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#1: Post by bravozulu »

Somebody answered my question on this a week ago, but got so technical I couldn't understand them. And also imagined that I have a $3000 espresso machine, which I don't

I have a $150 machine and am thinking of moving up to, perhaps, a $600-800 machine. And no further.

A want a Buick, Baby, not a Ferrari. And looking at water purification systems, soft water is a whole lot more complicated that Reverse Osmosis. Given the scale of my preferences, and distaste for complexity, what is wrong with Reverse Osmosis in brewing good espresso?

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another_jim
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#2: Post by another_jim »

bravozulu wrote: ... And looking at water purification systems, soft water is a whole lot more complicated that Reverse Osmosis.

... Somebody answered my question on this a week ago, but got so technical I couldn't understand them. And also imagined that I have a $3000 espresso machine, which I don't I have a $150 machine and am thinking of moving up to, perhaps, a $600-800 machine.
WTF? You're asking about commercial water treatment systems, and are buying a home machine.

The manual you will get with your machine will have descaling instructions. If not, get cleancaf and follow the instructions on the packet.
Jim Schulman

mgwolf
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#3: Post by mgwolf »

FYI, if you have hard water and put in an RO system without a softener, it will wreck the RO membrane in short order and those membranes are the most expensive part of the system. How 'bout bottled water?

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boar_d_laze
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#4: Post by boar_d_laze »

Gary,

Easiest solution: Use a Brita pitcher. If you reserve it for your espresso machine only, you'll only need to change the cartridge every couple of months. If you use it for other drinking water as well, you'll need to replace it about 30% more often than Brita recommends because our SoCal water is so hard.

Reasonable alternative: Mount a cold or hot/cold water dispenser at your sink, with a (relatively) inexpensive single or double stage filter preceding it and use it for all drinking and brewing. You can visit the taps the Home Depot or Lowes sites to price them. Good filters come in fairly standard sizes and are available from multiple sources.

In West Los Angeles, you don't need a big deal system unless you're doing big deal things -- like huge marine aquaria -- which you aren't.

If your wife has her heart set on a tap at the sink, do that. Otherwise, start with the Brita and don't worry about it until it becomes a PITA.

Hope this helps,
BDL
Drop a nickel in the pot Joe. Takin' it slow. Waiter, waiter, percolator

BuckeyeFieldSupply
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#5: Post by BuckeyeFieldSupply »

Can you tell me about how much softened water you need, and how often you need it? My guess is that a residential scale RO system will work fine for you.

Russ

PobodY
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#6: Post by PobodY »

I thought RO water in a coffee machine was a no-no. - The logic to this is quite simple; water likes to have a few ions in it. If you spend all that time and effort stripping them out it will only try to get them back from whatever it comes in contact with... which is usually the internals of your machine.
It's the same reason that you should never put neat deionised water into the radiator of your car; at the very least that needs some corrosion inhibitor and anti-freeze (which is also anti-boil).
Additionally, machines like my Rancilio S20 need some ions in the water to complete the circuit for the fill sensor; deionised water doesn't really conduct electricity (there are no ions to carry the charge).

If you pay for water consumption, RO isn't a great way of cleaning-up your water; it's about 5-15% efficient on water mains pressure. - So for every litre/gallon/unit of RO water you make, you're putting 6-20 litres/gallons/units down the drain.
It works better on an industrial scale where you can run a large pressure differential, so "push" more water through and thus lose less. That's why you can use it effectively for desalination.

Filtered water (like the Brita jug) makes more sense; you're just taking out the particulate matter and a lot of the major ions (like chlorine, fluorine, calcium, and magnesium). - Thus a line-filter on a plumbed-in machine is a good idea.
That's pretty much what your water-softening ion-exchange unit would be doing anyway; pulling the calcium and magnesium out of the water (and usually replacing it with sodium; hence the "exchange"). - You should be able to periodically regenerate an ion-exchange membrane with relatively simple chemicals, but as the membranes are proprietary you have to know which acid is the right one to use (generally the sodium comes from caustic soda).