Hi,

I red many topics about hard water solutions, but not one that would answer question (I asking myself in my mind).

Anyway, my new machine is on it's way, and since it has rotary pump I have an option to plumb in (at least in theory) .

Problem is that tap water here is uber hard - I bought Brita's temporary hardness test - and measure 22 dKH german degree (or 394 ppm ). I don't know what other values are, but I guess it doesn't really matter (cause this one aint good)

I had idea to buy one of BWT kits (bestcare/bestmax premium, whichever would work), but I didn't find anywhere information on how efficient (if any) would it be in my case (couldn't find anyone with similar numbers who use BWT and who posted values before/after)

So, is it even possible to get some reasonable values with BWT?
I mean, I wouldn't even considering it if there wasn't theirs official chart - of how water hardness affect capacity of each of their filter cartridges - where there are listed values that matches mine (or even higher ones), (form which it arises only that I would had to change cartridges more often (which doesn't bother me at all)).

Does someone have similar values and use BTW?

I would go for it, but definitely not if results won't be one that keeps machine safe, (I mean, it would costs me 200 + €, - not the sum to be thrown away)

For start I'll use bottled water + tank filters (cause even bottled here is 11-12 dKH (or 200 ppm) , but I would really love to be able to plumb it.

Just one more thing, I really don't want to (if I don't have to) go with some RO options, or making my own water with some recipes.

With a TDS that high, I'd go with an RO unit. Chances are, the product water will come out just about right, as RO units are not 100% efficient. I've never heard of one being plumbed in, but I bet there are some out there. Once you get the regulator set, it shouldn't care whether it's getting mains water or RO water. If it doesn't come out about right, you could add a bypass to blend in some mains water. Or you could add a mineralizing cartridge. But, I'm not a big fan of them, as the output isn't all that predictable. In any case, you could always go to not plumbing in and adding sodium bicarb to bring the TDS up to where you want it. I'd hazard a guess that this is what most of us are doing.

First, with water that hard, a whole house softener and carbon filter would be a prudent investment. Espresso gear asside, all of your fixtures and water use appliances will benefit. It might even bring you into acceptable parameters for your espresso machine.

Have you tested for chloride? This, as I'm sure homeburrero will attest is also of great concern when protecting your investment. If you have chloride high enough to be of concern, it can only be managed with an RO system.

In full disclosure, most of what I think I know about this subject, I learned from reading homeburrero's posts.

Hey, thanks for replays. While I'm waiting test of water analysis, my machine has arrived, so I had to use bottled water.

Anyways, I bought one with lowest hardness, so, as I see now plumbing wont' be something that I would do in another 10 or more days( for sure), it is time to ask you guys of your opinion on water I bought (to use it without filter)
Thank you.

Values (of bottled) water are:
KH= 4 dKH (68 ppm), GH= 8 dGH(144 ppm), PH= 7,5
Mg= 4,4, Na=1,2 , Ca= 20, Cl= 0,2 , HCO3= 82,2 mg/L

domba87cro wrote:Values (of bottled) water are:
KH= 4 dKH (68 ppm), GH= 8 dGH(144 ppm), PH= 7,5
Mg= 4,4, Na=1,2 , Ca= 20, Cl= 0,2 , HCO3= 82,2 mg/L

Those values don't add up. The KH agrees as expected with the HCO3 numbers, but the GH is way above what you get from the Ca and Mg numbers.

20 mg/L Ca as ion gives you 50 mg/L calcium hardness as CaCO3
4.4 mg/L Mg as ion gives you 18 mg/L magnesium hardness as CaCO3
which would be a total hardness of 68 mg/L

If your 144 mg/L GH number is correct, then you would be inviting limescale deposit issues with this water. But if the Ca and Mg numbers are correct, then I'd say that it's close to ideal and would deposit little if any limescale.

Ca and Mg are correct (paramets from bottle sticeker), but GH (between 8-16 d) is what I get from strip test.
Pictures below.

I don't know what is available in Croatia, and I see you got a nice machine, Lelit Bianca, I faced the trouble for chlorides in AZ. The reason I make my own water is confidence of not having an issue with filters and even though I have to purchase water its less than filters.

Espresso Cart - Goodbye Plumbed In

So you said

Just one more thing, I really don't want to (if I don't have to) go with some RO options, or making my own water with some recipes.

I ask why? Once set up, it takes me about 8 min every 10 weeks. And maybe 15 min once a year to make stocks. Honestly it would take 5 min but I have to spend 3 more keeping my two hooligan cats away from the water refilling the tank.

It's way easier than you might think, and it's worry free. Did I mention it's worry free. That is the best part.

domba87cro wrote:Ca and Mg are correct (paramets from bottle sticeker), but GH (between 8-16 d) is what I get from strip test.
Pictures below.

Trust the numbers on the bottle, not the strip test.

The 68 mg/L total hardness and 67 mg/L alkalinity numbers (in CaCO3 equivalents) are nicely in the conventional SCA ideal zone for espresso, and with the calcium hardness down in the 20 mg/L range you don't expect scale problems with this water. The TDS (Risiduo Fisso) of 64.8 mg/L is lower than the conventional recommendation but that's nothing to worry about when your other numbers are good.

P.S.
This post, Good references on water treatment for coffee/espresso , has a discussion of hardness and alkalinity zones, and is followed by a post that shows how to convert mg/L as ions to CaCO3 equivalence units.