NYC water analysis help - Page 3

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
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homeburrero
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#21: Post by homeburrero »

OK31 wrote:Ok so I just realized my local supermarket has a 5gal Poland spring program. IF I was to go the spring route as LM recommends as one of their options for water should I still expect to have a need for filtration or dilution of any kind for purposes other than flavor?
No need to filter, even for taste and odor. Poland Spring Water's analysis indicates that there are no residual disinfectants (chlorine nor chloramine) that you would need to filter out. If the water has some plasticy off-tastes or odors from the container (which I seriously doubt that it does) then it might benefit by charcoal filtering.
OK31 wrote:With distilled I understand it's a matter of adding minerals and making water soft but with Poland spring spring water is that still necessary?
I think not. You must add some minerals to distilled to increase buffer (reduce carbonic acid corrosivity) and to add conductivity so that water sensor probes work. This shouldn't be necessary for Poland Springs. You can check it with an inexpensive TDS conductivity meter. It should read somewhere in the 20 - 60 ppm range based on their analysis report. If yours is at the lower end of that range it might be a good idea to bump it up with a tiny amount of bicarbonate -- maybe 1 gram (1/5th teaspoon) of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or potassium bicarbonate in a 5 gallon container would do the job, giving you more conductivity and also bumping your alkalinity up by about 25 mg/L.
Pat
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#22: Post by OK31 (original poster) »

homeburrero wrote:No need to filter, even for taste and odor. Poland Spring Water's analysis indicates that there are no residual disinfectants (chlorine nor chloramine) that you would need to filter out. If the water has some plasticy off-tastes or odors from the container (which I seriously doubt that it does) then it might benefit by charcoal filtering.

I think not. You must add some minerals to distilled to increase buffer (reduce carbonic acid corrosivity) and to add conductivity so that water sensor probes work. This shouldn't be necessary for Poland Springs. You can check it with an inexpensive TDS conductivity meter. It should read somewhere in the 20 - 60 ppm range based on their analysis report. If yours is at the lower end of that range it might be a good idea to bump it up with a tiny amount of bicarbonate -- maybe 1 gram (1/5th teaspoon) of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) or potassium bicarbonate in a 5 gallon container would do the job, giving you more conductivity and also bumping your alkalinity up by about 25 mg/L.
Thank you, so then million dollar question what is the best option to use one of these jugs? The pump dispenser until ready to fully plumb in! Is there a tried and true pump?

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homeburrero
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#23: Post by homeburrero »

OK31 wrote:Is there a tried and true pump?
Can't help you there. Maybe ask in a new topic with a title like 'Recommendations for 5 gallon water bottle dispenser'. Make sure it's clear that you're talking about simply getting water out of the bottle into a pitcher that you use to refill the machine reservoir. I think I would be tempted to go low tech with a spigot valve on the bottle opening and a stand that holds the bottle tipped down, but I've no experience at all here.
Pat
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#24: Post by OK31 (original poster) replying to homeburrero »

Yeah that's the next idea especially to keep it cheap until later. Thanks again for all the guidance.

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#25: Post by OK31 (original poster) »

I'm baaack so just had my NYC tap water tested by the optipure test offered by prima coffee who then make a recommendation for a pentair filter.

Based on my notes of using an LM and a moccamaster for drip they came back with a recommendation of this filter EV927560 - QL2-OCS(2) WATER FILTER

The results are here and based on LM guidance I need a demineralization with a particulate filter. Which means that I'm back to a science experiment OR does this mean I can install that filter, and use rpavlis or some other formula as remineralization?

I am also going to be sending a test of my filtered water through a 3 stage filter already installed to see what if any difference there may be with that but per LM calculator the water is corrosion intolerable which seems to be a point the prima coffee rep is missing because he is referring to scale but no mention of corrosion.

Any thoughts?

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#26: Post by homeburrero »

If those results are right, then a simple carbon + particulates filter is perfectly fine. The one they recommend has a scale inhibitor that you probably don't need but no harm in having it.

Those analysis results look a little odd to me for NYC tap water. The zero chlorine is reasonable because the small amount in the tap can easily dissipate into the air. The alkalinity and chloride are within the range in the NYC water reports. But that 0.0 gph hardness sure looks fishy to me. You would expect something over 1 gpg given that you have a 20 mg/L alkalinity. Labs do sometimes make mistakes. Given the other numbers I'm sure the hardness is low and your tap water is non-scaling, so probably not worth worrying over. You may want to let them (Prima or Optipure) know that you got what looks like an erroneous zero hardness result for unsoftened tap water.


OK31 wrote:The results are here and based on LM guidance I need a demineralization with a particulate filter. Which means that I'm back to a science experiment OR does this mean I can install that filter, and use rpavlis or some other formula as remineralization?

I am also going to be sending a test of my filtered water through a 3 stage filter already installed to see what if any difference there may be with that but per LM calculator the water is corrosion intolerable which seems to be a point the prima coffee rep is missing because he is referring to scale but no mention of corrosion. most
Typo there (you meant re-mineralization, not de-mineralization.) And you are best off ignoring that advice -- That LM calculator is grossly oversimplified in its advice about corrosion. Of course you could re-mineralize with sodium or potassium bicarbonate* to bring the alkalinity up to the conventionally recommended 40 mg/L if you are using a reservoir or a flojet/carboy setup. If plumbed to a water tap don't worry about it.


* 0.2 - 0.3 grams of sodium or potassium bicarbonate per gallon of that tap water would do the trick here.
Pat
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#27: Post by OK31 (original poster) »

As always insightful and helpful. SO with those results and barring any err on their side would you say the water is acceptable to use even if adjusted manually for minerals with rpavlis if for nothing more than taste or would the recommendation of bottled still be relevant? This is a question taking into account that I don't really want to descale if avoidable and want to get as much out of the machine for as long as humanly possible.

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#28: Post by homeburrero »

OK31 wrote:SO with those results and barring any err on their side would you say the water is acceptable to use even if adjusted manually for minerals with rpavlis if for nothing more than taste or would the recommendation of bottled still be relevant? This is a question taking into account that I don't really want to descale if avoidable and want to get as much out of the machine for as long as humanly possible.
That water should be scale free, even allowing for them having an error in their zero hardness number. Some bottled might have a theoretical corrosivity advantage if it has more alkalinity and reliably low chloride but I don't see a good reason here to go to that trouble.
Pat
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#29: Post by GC7 »

OK31 wrote:As always insightful and helpful. SO with those results and barring any err on their side would you say the water is acceptable to use even if adjusted manually for minerals with rpavlis if for nothing more than taste or would the recommendation of bottled still be relevant? This is a question taking into account that I don't really want to descale if avoidable and want to get as much out of the machine for as long as humanly possible.
As I mentioned earlier in this discussion, I have the same NYC water as you up here in Westchester County. Analysis confirms the results are close enough to be the same give for the pipes that come into our community and homes.

I had minor concern for corrosive acrivity of chlorides based on Pat's writing. I had been taking tap water and adding rpavis salts but switched to zero water filtration to supposedly get rid of chloride and filter particulates and supplementing with rpavis salts. It's worked well so far. The cartridges last a really long times as monitored with a conductivity meter.

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#30: Post by OK31 (original poster) replying to GC7 »

Thanks, yes I saw the comments the only reason for the additional inquiry for me is the several reservoirs which deliver but also the local chloride which for me seems well below the threshold I think. I just sent a sample of my filtered water (3 stage clarium including active carbon and a pre sediment). Depending on what that shows I might just go back to using that + some carbonates have to test both to see what tastes better.