Need help to navigate through all water infos

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
Mirazur
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#1: Post by Mirazur »

Hello everybody,

In order to improve my brew (i'm currently using aeropress) I decided to start from the water since it was cheap and it could eventually be carried on to other brew styles and beverage.

I'm purchasing, through special channels, proper distilled water used in the pharmaceutical processes, as opposed to regular demineralized water through osmosys that's readily available. Probably unnecessary but I wanted to do something a little extra.

I have Magnesium Sulphate (eptahydrate) potassium bicarbonate and sodium bicarbonate, I decided to not go the full 5 elements range but do more than the 2 standard (read about people saying that too much sodium is not ideal but you should also add a little bit to the recipe according to SCCA)

I have a 0,01 gr accurate scale bought on amazon, jewelery style, best seller product I hope it works decently.

I have my usual 0,1 large scale that I use to brew my coffee (nothing fancy, well reviewed kitchen scale on amazon that has been working well enough)

I bought two 100 ml bootles to make the "high concentration" liquids, with graded pipette and also a syringe like style "thing" that you have to suck with for extra precision

multiple hard plastic 1 lt bottles.

I've read several stuff online but I believe i read too much and the process itself got me confuesd.

I know I'm supposed to put the minerals and water in the small bottles (I bought 100 ml ones hoping they would be enough to produce enough final water that I don't have to weight powder every week) and then take the 1 lt bottles, fill them with water to X amount and then add y amount from one small bottle and z from another small bottle to the point that X + Y + Z = 1 lt.

I don't want to play around with water recipe beside the first initial period, I want to get to an ideal recipe that works quite well for any given cofee brewed with aeropress (might revisit it later if i change brewing method).

Can you guys guide me through the missing gaps of the process? thanks in advance

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Jeff
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#2: Post by Jeff »

I found the "simplest" way for me was to make up concentrates so that nn g of concentrate in 1000 g of mix (a liter) results in nn GH (or KH)

If I got the numbers right:

2.46 g/L epsom salt for GH

1.68 g/L baking soda or
2.00 g/L potassium bicarbonate for KH

"L" there is a tad sloppy, but the errors compared to 1000 g total aren't large enough to worry about for this purpose.

To make my 20/80 water, I add 20 g of GH concentrate to an empty bottle. I add 80 g of KH concentrate to that. I add distilled or RO/DI water for a total of 1000 g. I can do that with sleepy hands and foggy brain on cold, dark mornings.

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homeburrero
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#3: Post by homeburrero »

^^^^ Those numbers are good for making 1 liter bottles of a concentrate, and allow you to easily figure the math for making up a 1 liter container of brewing water. For each ml of concentrate added to a liter of water you get a 1 ppm as CaCO3 bump in hardness(GH) with the epsom concentrate or a 1 ppm as CaCO3 bump in alkalinity (KH) with the bicarbonate concentrate.

This approach is the one used in the popular Barista Hustle recipes, discussed in some detail here: https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/diy- ... pes-redux/

Some of those BH recipes are perhaps ill advised for use in espresso equipment, but no worries about trying any of them with your aeropress.

Since you have small 100 ml concentrate bottles you might want to go with stronger concentrates. Even if you go a factor of 10 stronger (i.e., 2.46 g Epsom per 100 ml, and 2.0 g potassium bicarb in 100 ml) it should dissolve fully, although the Epsom may take a while to disssolve. Then you will get a 10 ppm (as CaCO3) bump with each ml of your concentrate when added to 1 liter.

P.S.
That "20/80" notation is becoming a common way to describe hardness and alkalinity of coffee brewing water, in this case with a total hardness (GH) of 20 ppm as CaCO3 and an alkalinity (KH) of 80 ppm as CaCO3.

Also, for our purposes ppm and mg/L mean the same thing, and you can simply assume that 1 liter of water, with or without the small amount of coffee water minerals weighs 1000 grams.
Pat
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Mirazur (original poster)
Posts: 37
Joined: 1 year ago

#4: Post by Mirazur (original poster) »

Jeff wrote:I found the "simplest" way for me was to make up concentrates so that nn g of concentrate in 1000 g of mix (a liter) results in nn GH (or KH)

If I got the numbers right:

2.46 g/L epsom salt for GH

1.68 g/L baking soda or
2.00 g/L potassium bicarbonate for KH

"L" there is a tad sloppy, but the errors compared to 1000 g total aren't large enough to worry about for this purpose.

To make my 20/80 water, I add 20 g of GH concentrate to an empty bottle. I add 80 g of KH concentrate to that. I add distilled or RO/DI water for a total of 1000 g. I can do that with sleepy hands and foggy brain on cold, dark mornings.
Hi jeff and thanks for taking time to reply to me.

Unfortunately not everything is clear to me: I want to make the concentrate solutions in smallish 100 ml bottles. According to your calculation I should put

0,246 gr of Magnesium

0,168 gr of baking soda
Or
0,2 gr of potassio

Which are harder to measure.

For start: can't i multiply x 5 the dose in the same 100 ml water bottle, and then only add 1/5 of what you suggested (so 4g of gh and 16g of kh) and then fill up to 1 lt?

This is the first thing I want to understand

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Jeff
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#5: Post by Jeff »

In the previous post, Pat suggests 10x concentration. That way 2 g of your concentrate is 20 ppm. That seems a good way to go, especially if you can measure to fractions of a gram or mL when you do your mixes.

Mirazur (original poster)
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#6: Post by Mirazur (original poster) »

homeburrero wrote:^^^^ Those numbers are good for making 1 liter bottles of a concentrate, and allow you to easily figure the math for making up a 1 liter container of brewing water. For each ml of concentrate added to a liter of water you get a 1 ppm as CaCO3 bump in hardness(GH) with the epsom concentrate or a 1 ppm as CaCO3 bump in alkalinity (KH) with the bicarbonate concentrate.

This approach is the one used in the popular Barista Hustle recipes, discussed in some detail here: https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/diy- ... pes-redux/

Some of those BH recipes are perhaps ill advised for use in espresso equipment, but no worries about trying any of them with your aeropress.

Since you have small 100 ml concentrate bottles you might want to go with stronger concentrates. Even if you go a factor of 10 stronger (i.e., 2.46 g Epsom per 100 ml, and 2.0 g potassium bicarb in 100 ml) it should dissolve fully, although the Epsom may take a while to disssolve. Then you will get a 10 ppm (as CaCO3) bump with each ml of your concentrate when added to 1 liter.

P.S.
That "20/80" notation is becoming a common way to describe hardness and alkalinity of coffee brewing water, in this case with a total hardness (GH) of 20 ppm as CaCO3 and an alkalinity (KH) of 80 ppm as CaCO3.

Also, for our purposes ppm and mg/L mean the same thing, and you can simply assume that 1 liter of water, with or without the small amount of coffee water minerals weighs 1000 grams.
Thanks for the reply sir.

You answered the question I added in my previous post.

Now I only have 2 more questions:

1) I read around that a mix of potassium and bicarbonate was better than just using one, that's why I got both.

Can i cut in half the quantities the other fellow suggested me (168 for sodium and 200 for potassium iirc), put them togheter (so 100 potassium + 84 sodium) as a base ?

2) despite what I said in the first post, I'm having more trouble accessing real ultra purity water (either double distilled or demineralized with an advanced process that makes it suitable for laboratories and stuff).

I can access regular demineralized water (the one you find in grocery stores) and in the label is stated that it isn't intended for consumption

I know this is mostly said to avoid people drinking only demineralized water thinking it's better and therefore missing all the minerals, which is not my concern since I'm not gonna drink it solely and i'm also gonna add minerals to that.

But i'm a bit weary about starements regarding the non elimination of bacteria and other micro organism.

Should I care about it?

Mirazur (original poster)
Posts: 37
Joined: 1 year ago

#7: Post by Mirazur (original poster) »

Jeff wrote:In the previous post, Pat suggests 10x concentration. That way 2 g of your concentrate is 20 ppm. That seems a good way to go, especially if you can measure to fractions of a gram or mL when you do your mixes.
Thanks Jeff, yes I read it after replying to you.

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homeburrero
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#8: Post by homeburrero »

Mirazur wrote:1) I read around that a mix of potassium and bicarbonate was better than just using one, that's why I got both.

Can i cut in half the quantities the other fellow suggested me (168 for sodium and 200 for potassium iirc), put them togheter (so 100 potassium + 84 sodium) as a base ?
Exactly right. 100 mg of potassium bicarb + 84 mg of sodium bicarb is chemically equivalent to 200 mg of just potassium bicarb. I doubt that it really matters, but I think the reason some people do that is to get close to the small amount of sodium that was recommended in the old 2009 SCAA water recommendation. (84 mg/L of sodium bicarbonate gives you 23 mg/L of sodium ion, and that old standard recommended 10 - 30 mg/L sodium.)

Mirazur wrote:2) despite what I said in the first post, I'm having more trouble accessing real ultra purity water (either double distilled or demineralized with an advanced process that makes it suitable for laboratories and stuff).

I can access regular demineralized water (the one you find in grocery stores) and in the label is stated that it isn't intended for consumption

I know this is mostly said to avoid people drinking only demineralized water thinking it's better and therefore missing all the minerals, which is not my concern since I'm not gonna drink it solely and i'm also gonna add minerals to that.

But i'm a bit weary about starements regarding the non elimination of bacteria and other micro organism.

Should I care about it?
Stick with purified food grade water for these recipes and you should be fine. For the water as well as the minerals, food grade is better for this purpose than laboratory grade. The de-ionized water in the grocery store refill station is more than pure enough, and is sanitized enough for drinking. After filtration the water no longer has chlorine nor chloramine disinfectant, but the equipment typically has UV sterilization. If you store it a long time keep it in a cool dark place (like a refrigerator).
Pat
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Mirazur (original poster)
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#9: Post by Mirazur (original poster) »

homeburrero wrote:Exactly right. 100 mg of potassium bicarb + 84 mg of sodium bicarb is chemically equivalent to 200 mg of just potassium bicarb. I doubt that it really matters, but I think the reason some people do that is to get close to the small amount of sodium that was recommended in the old 2009 SCAA water recommendation. (84 mg/L of sodium bicarbonate gives you 23 mg/L of sodium ion, and that old standard recommended 10 - 30 mg/L sodium.)


Stick with purified food grade water for these recipes and you should be fine. For the water as well as the minerals, food grade is better for this purpose than laboratory grade. The de-ionized water in the grocery store refill station is more than pure enough, and is sanitized enough for drinking. After filtration the water no longer has chlorine nor chloramine disinfectant, but the equipment typically has UV sterilization. If you store it a long time keep it in a cool dark place (like a refrigerator).
Thanks for all the infos,

I live in Italy so I might have access to different kind of water here.

I can't find any "food grade" demineralized water, just demineralized water that say it's not intended for drinking (again, this might be to avoid ignorant people to drink only that). No real mention about UV treatment.

The other (more expensive but still menageable) option I have is to buy a twice distilled water, the article on amazon shows that i can be used both in the lab or for ironing or to run appliances. Can't really find something in betweeen

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homeburrero
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#10: Post by homeburrero »

Mirazur wrote: I live in Italy so I might have access to different kind of water here.
I can't find any "food grade" demineralized water, just demineralized water that say it's not intended for drinking (again, this might be to avoid ignorant people to drink only that). No real mention about UV treatment.
The other (more expensive but still menageable) option I have is to buy a twice distilled water, the article on amazon shows that i can be used both in the lab or for ironing or to run appliances. Can't really find something in betweeen
Good point! I failed to note that you are in Italy, and the availability of purified drinking water is totally different over there than it is here.

Water that is distilled or otherwise purified so as to be perfectly good in a steam iron or a car battery may not be at all suitable for human consumption.

If you can buy a ZeroWater pitcher filter over there, and feed it any low mineral tap or bottled water you would be good to go. Or if you can find a very low mineral (less than around 50 ppm TDS or so) bottled water at an affordable price you could use that as a base.

Posting a new thread with a topic title something like: "Where can I get purified potable water in Italy for coffee recipes." might catch a helpful response.
Pat
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