Help with water filter plan for Londinium Compressa

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
conrad_vanl

#1: Post by conrad_vanl »

Compressa ordered. I have a dedicated 1/4" compression (ice maker) outlet that I'll use for this.

I'm somewhat familiar with water chemistry and LSI/CSI through swimming pools (trouble free pool anyone?), but I'm a little overwhelmed with figuring out the right setup for my new machine. I am measuring 60psi at the outlet right now, and I'd really like as little pressure drop as possible.

Here's water info:

Recent-ish measurements from Taylor drop tests:
TDS 417ppm
Ph 8.2
Total Chlorine 2ppm
Combined Chloramines <0.5ppm (less then test register)
Total Alkalinity 90ppm
Calcium Hardness 150ppm

Relevant part from city report:


Based on my rough CSI calculations, I'm thinking I'll need a softener. Is the filtration kit from Chris Coffee the way to go? (https://www.chriscoffee.com/products/wa ... ion-system). Does anyone know how much pressure drop to expect with this? What other options are there?

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CoffeeMac

#2: Post by CoffeeMac »

My water is pretty soft:



so I don't need a softener, but I do use this system with my Compressa to catch suspended particulates:

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... h-2-system

I have a pressure gauge on each side of filter and see no measurable drop. If I do, it would be a good sign to change the filter.

Since you need softening, something like this might work:

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... ion-system
Eventually you will end up with a lever.

LMWDP #706

conrad_vanl (original poster)

#3: Post by conrad_vanl (original poster) »

Yeah, I was hoping to use standard 10" filters and housings like what Chris sells. Might even get clear filter housings and use something like this cartridge on Amazon to make it easier to "see" the filter life remaining. I'm just really not sure how much these cation / ion exchange cartridges will effect my flow rate.

I'm also planning on pulling out my current 1/4" ice maker outlet box and replacing it with a 3/8" outlet, like what you'd use for a toilet, which I think will bump my PSI up a bit (also make it easier to plumb everything). My outdoor hose bib has 80psi vs the 60psi at this ice maker outlet. Easy for me to do now...

Edit: Found this PDF which shows a ΔP of <5psi...which I'm reading to mean it changes PSI by less then 5 PSI at the max flow rate. So I'm thinking I shouldn't see much pressure drop.

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homeburrero
Team HB

#4: Post by homeburrero »

conrad_vanl wrote:I'm thinking I'll need a softener. Is the filtration kit from Chris Coffee the way to go?
You do need softening and I think that CCS setup with a conventional softener is a good choice for softening. It would drop your hardness very low and keep all that alkalinity, which at around 90 ppm should be fine for espresso machine health as well as espresso taste.


conrad_vanl wrote:What other options are there?
Your water has significant sulfate and chloride ion, and your 12 - 63 mg/L chloride ion may be problematic for corrosion risk reasons. Unfortunately, to reduce that with an inline filtration system you would need to use reverse osmosis (RO) with a remineralizer and/or blending valve. La Marzocco recommends RO if the chloride ion is above 30 mg/L. Synesso is more conservative and recommends RO if the chloride is above 15 mg/L. An alternative to the RO setup would be to use a carboy of home-made recipe water with a flojet-like pump: Espresso Cart - Goodbye Plumbed In .


P.S.
CoffeeMac wrote: Since you need softening, something like this might work:
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... ion-system
I would disagree with that. The ES07 is a decarbonizing softener which reduces both hardness and alkalinity, and acidifies the water. You don't want that here (acidity and reduced alkalinity) because it would increase your chloride corrosion risk.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h

conrad_vanl (original poster)

#5: Post by conrad_vanl (original poster) »

Pat - thanks for the info.

I already have an RO system here. This is the exact system I have - https://www.theperfectwater.com/home-ma ... ystem.html - with the permeate pump.

However I understand the outlet out of the RO is pretty low pressure, and for lighter roast capability I'd really like decent pressure - at least 3 bar ideally at least 4 or 4.5. Is it possible to feed some sort of booster pump off the tank? Also, while this RO is actually in the same room as the machine, it's on the opposite wall, so to connect to this RO system I'll have to run a new line up the wall, over the ceiling, and back down. Not a big deal though.

If I can run a booster pump off of the RO system, that would potentially give me the greatest peace of mind. If possible, could you give me an example of the type of pump I'd be looking for?

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homeburrero
Team HB

#6: Post by homeburrero »

conrad_vanl wrote:If I can run a booster pump off of the RO system, that would potentially give me the greatest peace of mind. If possible, could you give me an example of the type of pump I'd be looking for?
I'm not a good person to ask, not having experience with RO systems. Maybe others can chime in. I think a booster pump would help if your water pressure is on the low side, but otherwise you may want a demand pump. I'd suggest contacting the PerfectWater folks and asking what's best for your system. I believe they also sell a 3/8" system that might help with the flow/pressure drop between the accumulator and the machine.

Don't count out the idea of a separate "espresso cart" setup where you lug the espresso machine's carboy over to your RO unit to fill. That would also give you a chance to bump the mineral content of the RO water if you thought it a little too soft.
Pat
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conrad_vanl (original poster)

#7: Post by conrad_vanl (original poster) »

Don't count out the idea of a separate "espresso cart" setup where you lug the espresso machine's carboy over to your RO unit to fill.
If that's the solve I should email Reiss and ask to upgrade to the R24 machine. Compressa was an attempt to save money :oops:

conrad_vanl (original poster)

#8: Post by conrad_vanl (original poster) »

Is it possible to counteract the corrosive potential of sulfate/chloride by increasing pH?

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homeburrero
Team HB

#9: Post by homeburrero replying to conrad_vanl »

I think the answer here is yes, especially if your alkalinity is low. Conventional wisdom is to keep the alkalinity above 40 mg/l (CaCO3 equivalent). An alkalinity at this level should keep the pH neutral or a little higher inside a heated boiler.

There's some related discussion here on HB that may be informative:
Warning: Chloride & sulfate levels with weak acid cation softeners (e.g., Everpure Claris)
and
WAC softening: Raising Awareness of Acids (Pentair PDF)
Pat
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conrad_vanl (original poster)

#10: Post by conrad_vanl (original poster) »

Thanks. FYI, I talked to both Londinium owner (Reiss) and someone with my RO company.

RO Rep suggested hooking the machine directly up to the output of the RO as is and see what my results are like. However, as far as I can tell, my outlet pressure on the RO is currently less then the minimum required by the Londinium (35psi outlet vs minimum 43psi for Londinium). RO rep acted like that the PSI could read differently after getting everything hooked up to the Londinium (I got the feeling he didn't really understand why I was requiring more pressure to an espresso machine, kept saying people hook up espresso machines to the exact setup I have all the time w/o issue). He did give me a recommendation for a demand pump if needed and talked me through how to balance pressures if I get a second storage tank. Also suggested running 1/4" to the Espresso machine instead of 3/8" to help boost pressure, which I'm not sure if that made sense to me.

Reiss doesn't seem as concerned with Chloride and Sulfate levels. Suggested that the pure copper boiler material will hold up better then S.S. in that sense. Also suggested minimum amount of softening as needed, potentially getting a filter with a blending valve so that I can keep my Alkalinity and pH in range. Wants high TDS and low temporary hardness.

Which is where I'm leaning right now... unless I figure out an easy (and quiet) method of boosting RO pressure.