Espresso machine-friendly water recipe?

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
NatT

#1: Post by NatT »

Looking for the simplest to mix, most espresso machine-friendly RO or distilled water based water recipe.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff
Team HB

#2: Post by Jeff »

"rpavlis" is perhaps the easiest, requiring only one ingredient that can be obtained from some health food stores, perhaps winemaking supply stores, and major online retailers at a moderate cost. It may not be the best for producing exceptional flavor from all coffees, but it certainly is "easy".

Where to start with regards to water

Carl K

#3: Post by Carl K »

I use Dr. Pavlis' water recipe to make 1 gallon of espresso water at a time.
I write the recipe on the bottles of concentrate and final mixed water so it's always at hand.
Head is spinning! Is there a very simple water recipe?

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz
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#4: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz »

Natalie are you intending on doing one gallon at a time or are you going to get a tank and spout. I highly recommend the latter if you have the space. I assume you aren't plumbing the machine based on your question or are you? .... using a tank and pump as I do?
CarefreeBuzzBuzz
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pcrussell50

#5: Post by pcrussell50 »

Jeff wrote:"rpavlis" is perhaps the easiest, requiring only one ingredient that can be obtained from some health food stores, perhaps winemaking supply stores, and major online retailers at a moderate cost. It may not be the best for producing exceptional flavor from all coffees, but it certainly is "easy".
This ^^^

The gripe against it is that it might not have enough hardness to strip everything out of the bean. Dr. Pavlis thought that concept was poppycock. But some other smart people didn't. And Dr. Pavlis passed while the argument was raging.

One thing I stand by is that you do not always want to extract the maximum yield out of every bean, every time. Some beans do better with a fuller extraction than others.

In my non-plumbed machines, I use Pavlis water.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

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sbenyo
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#6: Post by sbenyo »

You can look at this. Seems to be very simple:
https://www.wholelattelove.com/blogs/ho ... brew-water

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dgasmd

#7: Post by dgasmd »

Forgive me as I have been out of the forums world for a few years. Why all the super fuss with the water chemistry? Is it for equipment preservation or is it for taste? I am assuming we are all using "clean and free of germs water". Please educate me and show me some evidence. I have read a bunch of posts on this here already and all I see and read is this is better without any concrete evidence that proves so. Word of mouth or hearsay only goes so far with me.
Keep it simple and keep it enjoyable. It is about coffee, not quantum physics!

Jeff
Team HB

#8: Post by Jeff »

One of the big drivers is the broader awareness that with "good" water one can generally to completely avoid scale and all the maintenance woes that it brings.

Some are lucky in that their municipal water is "good enough". Others select from a handful of bottled waters that have the right kinds of minerals at the right levels, or start with RO/DI or distilled water and add some widely available, inexpensive ingredients (or use the convenience of some of the pre-packed mixes).

pcrussell50

#9: Post by pcrussell50 »

dgasmd wrote:Forgive me as I have been out of the forums world for a few years. Why all the super fuss with the water chemistry? Is it for equipment preservation or is it for taste? I am assuming we are all using "clean and free of germs water". Please educate me and show me some evidence. I have read a bunch of posts on this here already and all I see and read is this is better without any concrete evidence that proves so. Word of mouth or hearsay only goes so far with me.
A thread with some pictures and DIY water recipes from our resident chemistry professor (sadly now RIP).
dgasmd wrote:I see and read is this is better without any concrete evidence that proves so. Word of mouth or hearsay only goes so far with me.
Is the science of chemistry concrete enough for you?

Limescale comes from calcium and magnesium. Water without calcium or magnesium therefore, by extension, cannot cause scale.

Therefore distilled water cannot scale. However, it also does not conduct electricity, and that means espresso machine sensors in boilers would not work right.

So, what do do? Well, you add a "pinch" of pH buffering conductive ion that is not calcium or magnesium to distilled water, so that the sensors will work. By a pinch, we mean something on the order of 100mg of potassium bicarbonate, or 80mg of sodium bicarbonate to each liter of distilled water. This is not pharmaceuticals. Being exact is of little import, here.

Corrosion in espresso machines is frequently caused by the presence of chloride ions in the water. Chlorides are NOT to be confused with chlorine. Distilled water will not have chlorides, either. La Marzocco specifies not more than 30ppm chlorides, (hear that, Natalie :wink: ). Synesso specifies ZERO chlorides.

None of this is word of mouth or hearsay. It is science, and it was presented to us by Dr. Robert Pavlis, Professor of Chemistry and HB member.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

DaveB

#10: Post by DaveB »

dgasmd wrote:Please educate me and show me some evidence.
Exhibit A:

This is what to expect from good water

Exhibit B:

On the fence about descaling your espresso machine? See here...
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