Espresso Cart - Goodbye Plumbed In

March 1st, 2019, 8:28 am

Thank you to everyone here for educating me on some water basics. It's nearly goodbye awesome CO water hello crappy AZ water. Packing up the espresso machine and roaster this weekend. Scottsdale water has a lot of chlorides. Since there is no convenient place in the new house for the espresso machine near the kitchen RO with remineralizer, I am transitioning to an espresso cart. I decided against the Flojet people often consider as it apparently recycles a lot and I see quite a few posts of people having issues after two or three years.

A few others I have chatted with have used a similar system as below.

EDIT - JULY 2020 - Have now used this flawlessly for 16 months and highly recommend it. You can either use RO water without materialization or distilled water. This system is particularly great if you have high chlorides (different than chlorine). If you use an RO to feed your tank, you will want to get a flow measurement device to know how much buffer and hardness stock you want to add. I have collected my learnings on this forum and happy to share them if you PM me with an email address.

Sorry about some the image sizes.

The set up is: Holding tank>check valve>pump>accumulation tank>pressure regulator>espresso machine

Here is the final product on the cart. Note the wide mouth on the tank makes filling easy. The waste tank has a handle which makes it easy to carry out to the garden and dump.

Holding Tank - 6 gallon rectangular tank. July 2020 edit notes. I find this tank really needs to be refilled with four gallons as the exit point is not at the very bottom of the tank. Four gallons lasts about three weeks for 4-6 espressos a day plus cleaning routines. Note the wide mouth opening makes refilling very easy.
https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item. ... mid=125271

I am considering replacing the tank with this larger one which would fit my space although the opening is only 4" and not 5".
https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item. ... &catid=835

To use the Holding Tank with JG 3/8 tube you will need a reducer bushing of some sort and JG adapter. I chose the following. You might want to base your decision for the reducer on whether you can buy a single (rather than a pack of 10) JG adapter.

-Reducer Bushing 3/4" NPT Male x 1/2" NPT Female
- John Guest ½ NPTF Straight Adapter 3/8 OD tubing
PP011224W 3/8" 1/2"

Check Valve to prevent backflow when refilling tank. [Not sure this is necessary but is nice to have so I don't have to turn the shut off valve]
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... k-pressure

Pump
Aquatec 5853-7E12-J524 1.7 GPM 60 PSI 3/8 inch JG 120V Delivery/Demand Pump with Cord.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008GNFN82/

Accumulator - with a John Guest 3/8 adapter on top connects into pump line with a T.
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... nk-3-2-gal

J Guest Valve for Accumulator
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... x-1-4-nptf

John Guest T - one side to pump and other side to pressure regulator before espresso machine with T too accumulator
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... olypro-3-8

Pressure regulator
https://www.chriscoffee.com/Pressure-Re ... /334gg.htm

For more precision at more cost consider a Swagelok pressure gauge.

Waste Container
https://www.amazon.com/LCI-Plastic-Wate ... 828&sr=8-1

#2: Post by **spressomon** » March 2nd, 2019, 2:25 pm

IHO I'd ante-up for the ShurFlo SS accumulator. I had one of the NSF painted steel (yes, I know there is bladder that contains the water...) and it was a problem. When I tore the system down I purged rusty-goo-water from the accumulator bladder. Since moving to the 2-gallon ShurFlo SS accumulator there has been no such issue.

If you refill the water tank before it sucks air...no need for the one-way valve; although its good insurance for cheap

.

And incorporate T fittings with on/off valves for draining if/when necessary on both sides of accumulator, tank & pump. Again, for a little more $ it will make your life so much easier if/when maintenance, draining, etc., needs to be performed.

March 2nd, 2019, 2:56 pm

Dan thanks for the input. So is the Shuffle all SS on the inside? I have shut offs from my current filter system that I was going to migrate over so I'll have that part covered.

Thanks.

#4: Post by **spressomon** » March 2nd, 2019, 9:26 pm

Need to confirm this with Pentair, but I believe their "patented dome" is the only component that is in contact with water in addition to the internal SS walls of the tank.

It is possible the internal bladder on the unit I had problems with was compromised, which would explain the rusty-goo that presumably came from the steel tank's internal walls. It was only ~$35 so I never bothered sending it in to verify and instead went with the Shurflo SS and haven't looked back.

March 19th, 2019, 12:03 pm

Want to confirm that this is up and running and so far is a great system. The only thing with the parts list is that the JG bulkhead did not fit the tank so I had to get a 3/4 to 1/2 reducer and get a John Guest 1/2 in straight adapter to the 3/8 tubing. Unfortunately I had to buy 10 of them. If anyone wants one shoot me a PM.

So far the system is working great with very little pump action needed. No aftertaste detected either from the pump.

So here was the final parts list:

Holding Tank
6 gallon rectangular tank and John Guest 3/8 bulk head
https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item. ... mid=125271

No link for the following two items.
Reducer Bushing from ¾ to 1/2
John Guest ½ NPTF Straight Adapter 3/8 OD tubing
PP011224W 3/8" 1/2"

Check Valve to prevent backflow when refilling tank.
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... k-pressure
Pump
Aquatec 5853-7E12-J524 1.7 GPM 60 PSI 3/8 inch JG 120V Delivery/Demand Pump with Cord
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008GNFN82/?c ... _lig_dp_it
Accumulator - with a John Guest 3/8 adapter on top connects into pump line with a T.
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... nk-3-2-gal
J Guest Valve for Accumulator
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... x-1-4-nptf
John Guest T - one side to pump and other side to pressure regulator before espresso machine with T too accumulator
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/produ ... olypro-3-8
Pressure regulator
https://www.chriscoffee.com/Pressure-Re ... /334gg.htm

#6: Post by **Exb2019** » March 20th, 2019, 12:16 am

Before making massive purchases on water for a plumb system, try buying a $25 Honeforest quality water tester at Amazon. I was surprise of the different types of tests I did. However, a bwt water system under the circumstances of having a new espresso machine, currently it is not what I need. But the water tester I did need. Here is why. Every month I can test the water before it gets into the espresso machine and when it comes out. I can determine there and then whether there is scaling in the boilers. Here is a video I have made of my tests

March 20th, 2019, 12:26 am

Exb2019 wrote:Before making massive purchases on water for a plumb system, try buying a $25 Honeforest quality water tester at Amazon. I was surprise of the different types of tests I did. However, a bwt water system under the circumstances of having a new espresso machine, currently it is not what I need. But the water tester I did need. Here is why. Every month I can test the water before it gets into the espresso machine and when it comes out. I can determine there and then whether there is scaling in the boilers. Here is a video I have made of my tests

[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBfbx3CWns0 [/youtube]

In my case no tests needed. Phoenix water is very high chlorides. Testing or city water reports or both are a must in order to decide. Thanks for sharing this.

#8: Post by **redbone** » March 20th, 2019, 9:49 am

Exb2019 wrote:Before making massive purchases on water for a plumb system, try buying a $25 Honeforest quality water tester at Amazon. I was surprise of the different types of tests I did. However, a bwt water system under the circumstances of having a new espresso machine, currently it is not what I need. But the water tester I did need. Here is why. Every month I can test the water before it gets into the espresso machine and when it comes out. I can determine there and then whether there is scaling in the boilers. Here is a video I have made of my tests

<video>

Two points here. The TDS meter measures in parts per million as opposed to milliseconds. All water has to be tested at the same room or cool temperature since temp effects tds reader. If measuring water out of machine wait for it to cool to room temp. You can expedite the process by placing in refrigerator until temp is achieved.

November 14th, 2019, 8:49 am

The final image in this post was moved into the first post with my July 2020 update.

#10: Post by **Ciaran** » November 14th, 2019, 10:56 am

redbone wrote:Two points here. The TDS meter measures in parts per million as opposed to milliseconds. All water has to be tested at the same room or cool temperature since temp effects tds reader. If measuring water out of machine wait for it to cool to room temp. You can expedite the process by placing in refrigerator until temp is achieved.

I would add the following:

1. that honeforest TDS meter is for salinity, not freshwater. It will read 30% under the actual TDS of freshwater. Spend a few bucks more and get a 4-4-2 calibrated meter, but if you are interested in measuring hardness - get a hach 5b titration kit

2. A decent meter will have temperature correction - but still - don't test hot water

3. Measuring the TDS of the water coming out of the machine is meaningless - measure the water going into the machine instead - otherwise, you will be making a bunch of guesses and assumptions about the composition.