Espresso Cart - Goodbye Plumbed In - Page 18

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
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CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster)

#171: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster) »

coffeeconsultant wrote:Hi all, I've found this thread to be tremendously useful and have a question regarding the use of a pressure regulator:
I am considering purchasing an MVP Hydra - given that it uses a pressure regulator built into the machine to which the line feeds, is there a need for another pressure regulator before the machine regulator as described on page 1 of the manual?

I would think that unless the pressure regulator of Synesso is wildly inaccurate, there would be no need to add a regulator to the system (was thinking of a Swagelok!)

Can we trust the regulator built in by Synesso and described in the manual they provide?

Also, Synesso recommends 50psi line pressure which seems quite a bit higher than the 40psi I would have run it at - any thoughts?

I would trust it the Synesso. Is it supposed to regulate the pressure to the machine? Slayer says 3-5 bar. 50psi is 3.44 bar. I always have at least that, but sometimes more after the pump kicks in to fill the accumulator. I think you need to understand what the built in regulator is intended to do? Is that covered in the manual?
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#172: Post by coffeeconsultant »

My understanding is that it helps to regulate the line pressure for the pre-infusion stage as you can regulate the PI pressure using the regulator (and i understand from you now that 50psi is totally valid)

Regulator just looking a bit flimsy but what do I know :D maybe Synesso would know better than me

Here are 2 pictures from the manual


#173: Post by sean++ »

Thanks for this post, it's been fun learning to put this all together. I am facing one issue...

Can't figure out what's going on here, but the pump won't turn off.

System is definitely fully saturated, left it running for long enough that the water level in the reservoir stopped going down... Pitcher rinser works fine, and espresso machine has successfully filled it's boiler and pulled shots w/ the line pressurized...

What am I missing here? (image has a typo, the pump is at default pressure cut-off of 60)

Pump: aquatec 5853-7E12-J524 1.7 GPM (checked the connections on the pressure switch, it looks fine)
Accumulator tank: APEC Water Systems Tank-3 (stock pressure, I didn't check before connecting)

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster)

#174: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster) replying to sean++ »

What happens if you take the rinser out?
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#175: Post by sean++ »

I flipped the shut-off valve on the pitcher rinser and ran it for 30 seconds, pump kept running

Then flipped the shut-off valve on the espresso machine (now both lines are shut off), pump kept running

After about a minute I turned the system back off b/c I don't have a pressure gauge anywhere between the pump and the shut-off valves...

Once the system was off, I completely opened up the rinser's regulator. The rinser reg reads 60psi and the espresso machine regulator is 50psi. So the whole system is about 110, way over the 60psi cut-off of the pump.

1. reset the regulator pressures back to 20psi (rinser) and 40psi (machine)
2. depressurized the system
3. turned the pump back on
4. About 30seconds later, pressure switch activated and the pump shut off!

I bumped the rinser up to 30psi and everything is still good. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


#176: Post by DeuxInfuso »

Sean, good work.

I have similar setup but only 1 accumulator and zero check valves. The pump acts like a check valve, it is 2 checkvalves in series. The Aquatec pump can't easily prime itself against discharge resistance with any air in the line because it's not designed to pump air.

Suggestion: remove valve & CV on suction side of pump. Add a Tee downstream from pump with a valve on the Tee lateral. Call this "priming discharge" (PD) w/ short stinger discharge tube.

Then priming is really easy:

After filling feedwater reservoIr, open the PD valve, put a cup under the PD & plug in pump. It will suck from reservoir and prime itself in seconds AGAINST NO RESISTANCE. As soon as water discharges from PD, air is purged & pump is primed, so close PD valve. The pump is now fully primed and develops 60 psi in 1 or 2 seconds and shuts off. Primed in seconds!

Advocate for RO + KHCO3 @ 100PPM. (Dr. Pavlis non-scaling water)
Firefighter & Engine Operator (fire pumps prime this way too)

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster)

#177: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster) replying to DeuxInfuso »

@deuxinfuso interesting post. Thanks for sharing.

The reason most people have the ball valve in between the tank and the pump is for cleaning. How do you remove the tank for cleaning without a ball valve in between the tank and the pump?
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#178: Post by DeuxInfuso »

OK, using the valve to prevent loss of prime and leakage? I hadn't thought of that. I add 0.3 ppm copper sulphate to my tank to prevent slime forming bacterial growth, and only do a tank wash perhaps annually. It is usually very clean, and no algae. Sometime a tiny spider somehow gets past lid and drowns.

I just disconnect the 3/8 pex suction at the tank and raise it up, lean it against the wall or wherever, so it doesn't leak. Then clean tank and reconnect. I dont mind losing prime because its so easy to re-establish prime with no backpressure. You could leave the ballvalve and check valve in place... I just try to keep system super simple, but depending on accumulator size and location, add'l CV's could be handy.

In my system I use a 20 gallon Tamco tank, 12" square by 36" tall w/ loose fitting plastic lid. No bulkhead fittings or adapters to JG 3/8". I just drilled a 3/8" hole 1/2" below lid, push suction tube through, use one elbow to direct suction down to base of tank to a 5 micron suction filter (from Fresh Water Systems) and an elbow on the outside to route tubing to Aquatec 2 feet away. 8 years running and zero problems. Love the Aquatec 60 psi, 0.9 GPM pumps.

-Deuxinfuso, Reno

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CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster)

#179: Post by CarefreeBuzzBuzz (original poster) »

Great discussion. Yes I just clean annually.
My tank came with the bulkhead and had to get an adapter.
Biggest mistake is that I should have bought a larger tank, Tamco also, but a 5 or 6" inch screw in lid. It's only 6 gallons but I refill it at 4 about every 10 weeks.
I have looked for larger ones but could never get an accurate answer about the lid, as that is what makes it so easy to fill directly from gallon distilled water bottles. Many state 4" now. I wanted the larger.

Know of any online Tamco dealers other than US Plastics?
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#180: Post by DeuxInfuso »

I see has a wide range of polyethylene tank sizes w/ lids for maybe a little better price, or not... but it's the shipping that hurts. I spent about as much on shipping as on the 20 gallon 12x12x36" tank, maybe $200 total 5 years ago, but I'm very happy with the tank! I can see the level at a glance, and go for 2 months between 10 gallon refills.