CG Olancha Report Variances

Water analysis, treatment, and mineral recipes for optimum taste and equipment health.
5280grindz
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#1: Post by 5280grindz »

Hi All,

Been lurking and learning for a while. Appreciate all the wisdom. Bought 20 or so gallons of CG Olancha (based on their report and recommendations here) to take advantage of all the great roasters we have in CO. Purchased from local Sprouts and Whole Foods.

Wanted to pass along results. Be interesting so see where others fall after testing. IMO you cannot trust their report and I wonder what else is off and by how much.

Decided to test several gallons of water and was EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTED in the results. Calcium hardness in the Olancha report is 45-55, tested as high as 100. TDS in the Olancha report is 53-56, ranged from 77-105.

The only measure which was in range of the Olancha report was ph, 6.96-6.98

Bottled water companies are regulated by the FDA and these are pretty significant variances from their claims. I'd imagine a bunch of us are going to have shell out for descaling since we took the report at face value.

Ciaran
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#2: Post by Ciaran »

Sorry to say claims regarding Calcium hardness in this range are not going to be regulated. As to TDS, depends on what factoring was used. If they measured using a NaCl meter and you used a 4-4-2 meter, then there's going to be a 30% variance between them.

jgood
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#3: Post by jgood »

As I use a CG Olancha mixture (3/4 CG:1/4th distilled) I read your post with interest. Could you describe your testing procedure? I am no expert but hopefully someone will chime in. And I'd like to test my water -- been believing the printed material, perhaps foolishly!

nuketopia
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#4: Post by nuketopia »

How are you testing these parameters?

The water reports from CG are pretty detailed and performed by reliable labs. The thing to be aware of is that it represents a sample of one or possibly a few points of time, and spring water being a natural product, is going to vary.

Also - by memory, Olanche's analysis is not as favorable as the Weed plant (Mt. Shasta) water is for coffee. Olanche as I recall, was always higher in mineral content than the Weed plant.

But I'm still curious, how you arrived at the figures?

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homeburrero
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#5: Post by homeburrero »

nuketopia wrote:The water reports from CG are pretty detailed and performed by reliable labs. The thing to be aware of is that it represents a sample of one or possibly a few points of time, and spring water being a natural product, is going to vary.
+1

This sort of analysis most likely uses a sophisticated method, like Inductively Coupled Plasma-Atomic Emission Spectrometry (EPA 200.7), to analyze a number of elements quickly and accurately. Then for values like calcium hardness as CaCO3 they simply calculate the result. I don't think they would be widely off but do change a little over time. For example, Olancha Peak water measured calcium hardness at 45-55 mg/L for the 2018 samples, and at 45-52 for the 2015 samples.
5280grindz wrote:Calcium hardness in the Olancha report is 45-55, tested as high as 100.
First thing to suspect here would be errors in your test, perhaps a bad or expired titration reagent. Another wild possibility is that you got a bottle from Oachita and not Olancha. My Sprouts market used to sell CG from Olancha, and I noticed yesterday on the fine print that current bottles on the shelf are from Oachita (which is the Norman Arkansas plant.)
5280grindz wrote:TDS in the Olancha report is 53-56, ranged from 77-105.
Hmm - the 2018 report says 140 - 160 mg/L for actual TDS of Olancha peak. If you measure with a "TDS meter" you are really measuring conductivity, and the reading will depend on the conversion and temp correction factors.
They list a conductivity of 180 - 240 micromho/cm for Olancha, and with an inexpensive HM digital TDS meter, calibration factor (NaCl) of 0.5, at 25℃, you might expect a reading of 90 - 120 ppm

P.S.
Crystal Geyser water reports can be found here: http://www.crystalgeyserasw.com/faq.html
Pat
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5280grindz (original poster)
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#6: Post by 5280grindz (original poster) »

Howdy all. Appreciate the replies. Happy holidays/New Year!

Reviewed the Olancha 2018 report a couple months ago when I was evaluating options vs tap. Out here in CO I have yet to find anything other than Olancha in store. Like everyone here just trying to get best extractions with my Mignon Specialita (great for single dose), Synchronika and VST baskets. Have some great local roasters... Boxcar, Commonwealth, Dragonfly, Sweet Bloom, Coava, Unseen Bean, etc... want to take full advantage.

Used conductive TDS meter (calibrated), cleaned anodes with beaker cleaning paper between uses, random sample of 5 diff Olancha gallon jugs, shook them up, took sample, let it settle, measured, poured out ~1/3, repeated 3 times with each jug. Used hardness strips from 2 diff manuf and a test kit to test each sample (not expired).

One thing I could not find in CGs Olancha report was the frequency of their sampling. That might be interesting to know. Thinking maybe it's worth it to send a few samples to a lab or lean on my inlaws (who owe me for drinking some expensive library wines recently), both of whom are chem phds, to validate the results in the report.

Just put an OSCAR in the reservoir but don't like what it's doing, taste is off.

Perhaps mixing with distilled is the best near term solution however that may decrease ph further right? With my tests it came in at right around 6.96 +/- .02 with the ph meter (calibrated).

Looking at the BWT Bestsave M reservoir filter (WLL has them). It appears to be weak acid cation method, I'd imagine it would decrease ph further which wouldn't be great for the machine if Olancha ph is below 7.0 correct?

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homeburrero
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#7: Post by homeburrero »

5280grindz wrote:Looking at the BWT Bestsave M reservoir filter (WLL has them). It appears to be weak acid cation method, I'd imagine it would decrease ph further which wouldn't be great for the machine if Olancha ph is below 7.0 correct?
I did ask them (in an e-mail) but never got a reply. I'm almost positive that it's a WAC (decarbonizing) resin like almost all of their products. They list the capacity in terms of KH, which is a clue. (Their 'bestprotect' product, which is a conventional SAC resin softener, lists the capacity in terms of total hardness rather than KH.)

The Olancha alkalinity at 61 - 72 mg/L as CaCO3 (3.4 - 4.0 °dKH ) isn't very high so it may be unswise to use a WAC resin here. Not a big deal with Olancha because that water does have nice low chloride.

The Oscar or Rocket pouches might be better and cheaper, but if you're using bottled anyway I think a simpler and more reliable approach to avoid any scale would be to simply dilute the Olancha a little with purified or distilled - reducing the KH to the 40 mg/L ballpark. You can use the inexpensive API fishcare KH kit to test and find your ratio. For better low range precision you can use a 10 ml rather than 5 ml test sample, and then shoot for a color change at about 4-5 drops.

5280grindz wrote:Have some great local roasters... Boxcar, Commonwealth, Dragonfly, Sweet Bloom, Coava, Unseen Bean, etc... want to take full advantage.
For sure. Seems to be an explosion of good roasters in the Rockies.
Pat
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5280grindz (original poster)
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#8: Post by 5280grindz (original poster) »

Thx Pat. I did get a paper from their national director of sales. Probably more useful for you than me.

Would it make more sense to use a BWT BestSave M with Aqua Panna instead? I know LM recommends but it seems to be pretty hard water no?

Here's their report.
https://www.acquapanna.com/sites/defaul ... /ap_us.pdf

If you're on the hunt, highly recommend Commonwealth Ontology, Dragonfly Crema Dolce and Sweet Bloom Hosmtown.

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homeburrero
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#9: Post by homeburrero »

5280grindz wrote:Thx Pat. I did get a paper from their national director of sales. Probably more useful for you than me. I'll pull the link after you download.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kotrdqv47zx90 ... 0.pdf?dl=0
Excellent! and thanks. I had asked the same person, maybe caught him at a busy time. This pdf had most everything one needs to know about the product, and verified that it is indeed a WAC resin:
Bag: PE fleece
Filtration material: mixture of weak acid cation exchange resin and granular activated carbon
5280grindz wrote:Would it make more sense to use a BWT BestSave M with Aqua Panna instead? I know LM recommends but it seems to be pretty hard water no?
Acqua Panna is a neighbor of La Marzocco, maybe that's why they recommend them. The water is moderately hard and would be scale-prone at full strength (total hardness = 110, ca hardness = 80, total alkalinity = 89 as CaCO3). For use in the BWT charts it would be 5°dKH, so even the small S filter should handle 100 liters/2 months. But to me it does seem like a less reliable/predictable solution than just starting with a softer water like CG - Olancha.
Pat
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nuketopia
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#10: Post by nuketopia »

If you have trouble finding the Weed Plant (Mt. Shasta) Crystal Geyser, I can say I've had reasonably good luck with Walmart Great Value branded spring water. It is produced by various companies and sources, just labeled for Walmart. You can sort out who made it by looking on the label and I tend to use it at my second home where I don't have water treatment installed. Same goes for 365 Brand at Whole Foods. Locally in the SF area, it simply appears to be house-labeled Crystal Geyser from Mt. Shasta. What you actually get will depend on location and who's supplying it to the grocer. A little label sleuthing can find good water at good prices.

Acqua Pana is the native water of the area where LaMarzocco is headquartered. It represents the hard water typically used in Italian bars to make espresso in the area. Very hard water, once brought to boing temperature, will only keep a certain amount of hardness. The rest of the minerals get left in the machine as scale. The theory is the coffee is good and consistent, but the machine will need descaling eventually. They really don't overthink this in Italy. Espresso is just commodity coffee in Italy for the most part. The machine often is owned and maintained by the bean vendor, so the cafe owner doesn't really care too much.

We diddle over this stuff because we're trying to make good tasting coffee and operate the machine for maximum life without scale.

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