Can I use filtered tap water instead of my own "Pavlis" water? (part two)

#1: Post by **Moka 1 Cup** » February 19th, 2022, 10:03 pm

Hello.

I have a Breville Dual Boiler. I make my own "Pavlis" water with potassium bicarbonate.
Reason is to avoid the need for descaling the Dual Boiler.

Last year I moved to a new place. When I test the tap water with a TDS meter, it measures 34-40 ppm.
We filter the tap water before drinking it with a Berkey water filter. Out of the Berkey the water measures not more than 42-44 ppm.

Can I stop using the "Pavlis" water and just use the water filtered with the Berkey, and still being confident that I do not have to descale the Dual Boiler?

February 20th, 2022, 11:59 am

Moka 1 Cup wrote:Can I stop using the "Pavlis" water and just use the water filtered with the Berkey, and still being confident that I do not have to descale the Dual Boiler?

I think you could do that and be fairly confident about not having to descale, even if not perfectly confident as you would be with R Pavlis (100 mg/L KHCO3) recipe, which has zero minerals that might cause scale or scale-like deposits. But the Pavlis water may still be a better choice for other reasons, including corrosion, and to decide about that you'd need to know more about what comprises that ~ 40 ppm of your local water.

#3: Post by **PIXIllate** » February 20th, 2022, 12:53 pm

Your municipality should have water testing reports available. If you post rhe makeup of your water I'm sure Pat could help you unpack it.

He did this for me and I still consider it the single most helpful post for me personally on the forum. I've used my filtered tap water with an additional 0.2g of Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salt) and 0.2g of Potassium Bicarbonate per gallon every day since. So far no sign of scale when I pull the flow control mushroom and lever apart.

Thanks Pat!

February 20th, 2022, 3:19 pm

Yep!
Pat is great and I have to thank him already for recommendations that he has given me in the past and to many other members and that were helpful to me as well.

The water report for 2021 is not available yet, the latest is for 2020: https://www.cantonga.gov/government/dep ... ty-reports

However, as I mentioned we filter the water with a Berkey filter that we already had in our previous location, if it makes a difference.
https://www.berkeyfilters.com/pages/fil ... ifications

Berkey Removes Viruses to >99.999% (Log 5)
MS2 Coliphage - FR Coliphage
*Exceeds purification standards (Log 4)
Berkey Removes Pathogenic Bacteria (And Surrogates) to >99.9999%
Raoultella terrigena (Pathogenic Bacteria Surrogate); Bacillus atrophaues (Anthrax Surrogate); Salmonella Enterica
*Exceeds purification standard (Log 6)
Berkey Removes Trihalomethanes to >99.8%
Bromodichloromethane; Bromoform; Chloroform: Dibromochloromethane
*Below Lab Detectable Limits
Berkey Removes Inorganic Minerals up to 99.9%
Chloramines; Chlorine Residual (Total Residual Chlorine); & Free Chlorine >99.9%
Chloride >99.6%
*Removed to Below Lab Detectable Limits
Berkey Removes Heavy Metals (High & Low pH Levels) up to 99.9%
Aluminum (>99%); Antimony (>99.9%); Barium (>80%); Beryllium (>99.9%); Bismuth (>99.9%); Cadmium (>99.7%); Cobalt (>95%); Chromium (>99.9%); Chromium 6 (>99.85%); Copper (>99.9%); Iron (>99.9%); Lead (>99.9%); Mercury (>99.9%); Molybdenum (>90%); Nickel (>99.9%); Vanadium (>87.5%); Zinc (>99.9%)
Berkey Removes Micro-Organisms to >99.9%
Including: Total Coliform, Fecal Coliform, e.Coli
Berkey Removes Pharmaceutical Drug Contaminants to >99.9%
Acetaminophen; Caffeine; Carbamazepine; Ciprofloxacin HCl; Erythromycin USP; Sulfamethoxazole; Trimethoprim; Bisphenol A; Diclofenac Sodium; 4-para-Nonylphenol; 4-tert-Octylphenol; Primidone; Progesterone; Gemfibrozil; Ibuprofen; Naproxen Sodium; Triclosan.

#5: Post by **Nate42** » February 20th, 2022, 4:38 pm

The water report you posted isn't particularly useful for coffee purposes. It just shows the levels of a few contaminants. You are probably correct in that scale won't be much of a concern. The other thing to worry about is corrosion. If your ph is greater than 7 you are probably fine. You could gauge that with ph test strips or test strips used for pools. And of course does it taste good? If it tastes good and isn't acidic go for it. If it is acidic, add bicarbonate until it's not.

February 20th, 2022, 5:09 pm

Thank you. I have just tested both. They look OK:

#7: Post by **Pressino** » February 22nd, 2022, 12:10 pm

Moka 1 Cup wrote:Yep!
Pat is great and I have to thank him already for recommendations that he has given me in the past and to many other members and that were helpful to me as well.

The water report for 2021 is not available yet, the latest is for 2020: https://www.cantonga.gov/government/dep ... ty-reports

However, as I mentioned we filter the water with a Berkey filter that we already had in our previous location, if it makes a difference.
https://www.berkeyfilters.com/pages/fil ... ifications

Ad says it removes ">99.6%" chlorides....really??

February 22nd, 2022, 1:22 pm

It does say that, and they do have one analysis report that supports that, but I don't believe it. I think that report may well be an erroneous result. If true they would have a remarkable product for those of us with too much chloride in their water. Their documentation is full of nonsense, and they are not at all transparent about their ion exchange resins, so I have little faith in their claims. But I can't say that I've tried and measured it myself. I did run across a video by a very pro-Berkey person (18 minute video here) that showed numbers for a lab analysis of her Big Berkey filtered water. I snipped a couple views to catch some of the analysis report results -- the pre-Berkey softened tap water is on the left and the post-Berkey filtered numbers are on the right:

Note that the chloride ion in this test was not reduced. (12.13 ppm before Berkey and 12.62 ppm after Berkey)

#9: Post by **Pressino** » February 22nd, 2022, 8:45 pm

Yeah, I don't believe it either, an opinion I politely posed as a question...maybe they meant chloramines.

February 22nd, 2022, 9:58 pm

Thanks guy. I guess it means that I should keep using the Pavlis water.