homeburrero wrote:+1. I use it, and like that it saves me carrying gallons of distilled/purified home from the grocery store. Be aware that for high TDS water the filter cost can become uneconomical. I see different numbers for Houston water, but the most official one I've seen claims a TDS in the 100-250 ppm range (2013 report - here .) At that level you should get around 30 gallons from each filter ( https://www.zerowater.com/filtration-filter-life.aspx ) and the filters run about $10 - $15 each , so ~ $0.30 - $0.50 per gallon.

The TDS meter is very effective in telling you when the pitcher filter is used up - when it shows 6ppm or more, that means you need a new filter. You can also use it to keep an eye out for unexpected changes in your mineral content from the tap - just always read it at the same temperature. It's true that a conductivity measure alone is insufficient for deciding if your water is ideal, but they are handy and have their uses.

Thanks for this. Yes, I couldn't find a recent report on Houston water. I found a private water softener company that said it was 8.5 gpg in addition to the 2013 report you linked (which is why I gave a range). Will definitely check out the Zero water filter. That is cheaper than distilled water from Walmart, and as you mentioned, has the added advantage of not having to lug them home.

Really appreciate all the thoughts. Can you point me in the direction of a home hardness and alkalinity reagent set?

givemeespressofirst wrote:Can you point me in the direction of a home hardness and alkalinity reagent set?

The API fishcare GH and KH test hit is inexpensive, easy to use, and popular with folks on this site. It's not very precise, but will get you in the neighborhood of plus or minus 20 ppm, which is good enough for home use. An online search of API GH KH will find lots of online vendors of that. The KH kit measures alkalinity and the GH measures total hardness.

Kits are also available from Hach,
Hach 145300 and Hach 2444301
The Hach alkalinity test is pricey, but has better precision than others.

You can also get kits from Red Sea (http://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-pro ... -test-kit/ )
This one has no general hardness test, but you can calculate it from the calcium and magnesium test results.* With their kit you use syringes with 0.01 ml markings to drop the reagent in drop by drop, then instead of counting drops you use the actual volume dispensed from the syringe, which should result in better accuracy.

*total hardness = calcium ppm * 2.5 + magnesium ppm * 4.1

Appreciate all the replies. Wanted to provide an update.

I bought the API GH KH kit. Very inexpensive on Amazon. My tap water came out at 161 ppm (GH). Appears that is about 9.7 gpg. Pretty hard. Is that total dissolved solids? Is general hardness the same as TDS or is that carbonate hardness? The instructions say that the KH is carbonate hardness.

I measured some water I had diluted out previously with distilled water I had already purchased (will run that out probably before buying the Zero water filter) and it was brought down to 125 ppm. I was mainly just eyeballing it but will probably need to bring that down.

What should I shoot for with the GH test to get better water to brew with?

givemeespressofirst wrote:My tap water came out at 161 ppm (GH). Appears that is about 9.7 gpg. Pretty hard. Is that total dissolved solids? Is general hardness the same as TDS or is that carbonate hardness? The instructions say that the KH is carbonate hardness.

With the API kit, GH is your total hardness and KH is your alkalinity. There are two different definitions for the term "carbonate hardness", so that term can cause confusion. Some people use the terms alkalinity, KH, and carbonate hardness interchangeably.

Hardness is a measure just of the calcium and magnesium content of the water and is not the same as TDS, which is a measure of all the stuff in your water. If you dissolve a lot of salt or sodium bicarbonate in distilled water it would have a high TDS but zero hardness. Typically the TDS measure is higher than the hardness measure - that's why you can use a cheap and easy TDS meter and if it shows a low value you can assume that you also have a low hardness.

givemeespressofirst wrote:What should I shoot for with the GH test to get better water to brew with?

The best guidance on this is Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ. With your hardness (GH) and alkalinity (KH) measurements you have the numbers you need to evaluate how much you need to dilute that water down to low scaling rates. Probably in the neighborhood of 50:50 tap/zerowater but it depends on the alkalinity and you didn't say what your KH number was.

homeburrero wrote:With the API kit, GH is your total hardness and KH is your alkalinity. There are two different definitions for the term "carbonate hardness", so that term can cause confusion. Some people use the terms alkalinity, KH, and carbonate hardness interchangeably.

Hardness is a measure just of the calcium and magnesium content of the water and is not the same as TDS, which is a measure of all the stuff in your water. If you dissolve a lot of salt or sodium bicarbonate in distilled water it would have a high TDS but zero hardness. Typically the TDS measure is higher than the hardness measure - that's why you can use a cheap and easy TDS meter and if it shows a low value you can assume that you also have a low hardness.


The best guidance on this is Jim Schulman's Insanely Long Water FAQ. With your hardness (GH) and alkalinity (KH) measurements you have the numbers you need to evaluate how much you need to dilute that water down to low scaling rates. Probably in the neighborhood of 50:50 tap/zerowater but it depends on the alkalinity and you didn't say what your KH number was.

Thanks for the continued help. Sorry, left off the KH. It turned right in between two drops so probably about 130-135 ppm for KH.

I looked up the SCAA recommendations for brewing water and didn't see anything for general hardness. Just calcium hardness and alkalinity.

With the complete data, what would you recommend for a ratio with my terrible city water?

Edit: I should add that I'm looking to both prevent bad scaling on my espresso machine and brew espresso and coffee. Not sure if the recommendations would change for the different purposes. I suspect not.

givemeespressofirst wrote:I looked up the SCAA recommendations for brewing water and didn't see anything for general hardness. Just calcium hardness and alkalinity.

Yes, and that does cause some confusion. Unless you know the calcium hardness, you can just use the total hardness when comparing your water to that spec. You will be conservative (it will scale less than expected) if your tap water's hardness is more than typical in magnesium hardness.

givemeespressofirst wrote:With the complete data, what would you recommend for a ratio with my terrible city water?

If you can live with possibly needing an occasional descaling of the machine, a mix of 4 parts tap to 6 parts Zerowater would get you into a reasonable ballpark. That would give you a hardness:alkalinity of about 65:53.

If you prefer to never descale, then you could go down to 3 parts tap and 7 parts zerowater. That would put you around 48:40 in hardness:alkalinity, and even if all hardness was calcium and in a relatively hot steam boiler you should not expect scale.

For French, pourover, or aeropress where you have no worries about scale, you could try less dilution and see if you like the taste better. Your full strength tap has a somewhat high alkalinity which some would say could dull the acidity and detract from the taste.

homeburrero wrote:Yes, and that does cause some confusion. Unless you know the calcium hardness, you can just use the total hardness when comparing your water to that spec. You will be conservative (it will scale less than expected) if your tap water's hardness is more than typical in magnesium hardness.


If you can live with possibly needing an occasional descaling of the machine, a mix of 4 parts tap to 6 parts Zerowater would get you into a reasonable ballpark. That would give you a hardness:alkalinity of about 65:53.

If you prefer to never descale, then you could go down to 3 parts tap and 7 parts zerowater. That would put you around 48:40 in hardness:alkalinity, and even if all hardness was calcium and in a relatively hot steam boiler you should not expect scale.

For French, pourover, or aeropress where you have no worries about scale, you could try less dilution and see if you like the taste better. Your full strength tap has a somewhat high alkalinity which some would say could dull the acidity and detract from the taste.

Thanks so much for the help. This is really great.

I've already used the machine (albeit with very soft water with a water softener) for 8 months. I just moved. Not having a water softener is what prompted me to look into my options (this thread). So I may need to descale any way. I don't know how hard the water was. I do know that when the home inspector tested it, (because I moved from a place with VERY HARD water) it was softer than the end of his scale.

Would the slightly harder water have a better flavor? I kind of gathered that from the long FAQ. It was very verbose though (and complete).

I did notice an improvement in the taste when I started adding distilled water. I was doing about 40% or so, but usually over- or undershot when weighing. It was a definite improvement over tap though.

homeburrero wrote:+1. I use it, and like that it saves me carrying gallons of distilled/purified home from the grocery store. Be aware that for high TDS water the filter cost can become uneconomical. I see different numbers for Houston water, but the most official one I've seen claims a TDS in the 100-250 ppm range (2013 report - here .) At that level you should get around 30 gallons from each filter ( https://www.zerowater.com/filtration-filter-life.aspx ) and the filters run about $10 - $15 each , so ~ $0.30 - $0.50 per gallon.

The TDS meter is very effective in telling you when the pitcher filter is used up - when it shows 6ppm or more, that means you need a new filter. You can also use it to keep an eye out for unexpected changes in your mineral content from the tap - just always read it at the same temperature. It's true that a conductivity measure alone is insufficient for deciding if your water is ideal, but they are handy and have their uses.

I'm almost out of distilled water so I went to BB&B to pick up the Zero Water Pitcher and filter. All of the filters I saw were rated for 15 gallons. Unfortunately that link above no longer works and I couldn't find on the equivalent on mobile while I was out so I passed.

When I got home, I found what I think is the chart you linked: https://www.zerowater.com/faq-filtratio ... r-life.php (permanent link here...). This seems to indicate that I would get more than 15 gallons. If I got 15 gallons out of it, then that would be a little more expensive that distilled water, not even taking the upfront cost of the pitcher into account.

I'm curious, how many gallons do you guys get out of your Zero Water filters?

Kevin,

I live down in San Antonio and I too was pulling from the same aquifer as you. I was advised by several HB members to buy Crystal Gyser bottled water from the Norman Plant I was able to buy it HEB for $1/gal. During my bi-monthly pilgrimage to the grocery store I would buy a few gallons and keep them in the pantry. I just sold my Rocket and when I opened the mushroom to drain the machine and inspect for scale, it was spotless.


Cheers,

Brandon

Wow. That's great. How can you verify it's from the Norman Plant? I've been mixing my tap with distilled water to make a nice solution with acceptable TDS and alkalinity, but this would probably be even better since there would be no chlorine, etc.