Best options for espresso with hard water - Page 2
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ira wrote:Can you explain how this works?
Ira
Boiling the water will cause the "temporary" hardness (scale forming calcium) to precipitate out of the water. Once the water is boiled and the scaling potential is reduced, it will not form scale inside the espresso machine.
Calcium carbonate is only partially soluble in water. However, water reacts with carbon dioxide in the air to form carbonic acid. This reacts with calcium carbonate to form calcium bicarbonate which is highly soluble in water. When hard water with calcium bicarbonate is boiled, the bicarbonate converts back into carbonate, which precipitates as scale.
So if you boil the water first, decant it off the precipitate, you've effectively left the scale in the pot you boiled it in, rather than in your espresso machine.
Boiling will not remove permanent hardness. But permanent hardness doesn't produce scale in a hot water boiler. Permanent hardness leaves water spots when it dries, but not scale in boilers.
- sweaner
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I have never seen any precipitate in boiled water.
Scott
LMWDP #248
LMWDP #248
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If you want to "nerd out" on water also check this out..
Good references on water treatment for coffee/espresso
Many of us asked for a dedicated water forum since this question comes up repeatedly. But that has been shot down....
Good references on water treatment for coffee/espresso
Many of us asked for a dedicated water forum since this question comes up repeatedly. But that has been shot down....
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....
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Thanks for all the replies. I think for now I will just dilute my tap water with distilled water.
What hardness should I target to get good espresso and not accelerate the rate at which I have to decalcify my machine?
What hardness should I target to get good espresso and not accelerate the rate at which I have to decalcify my machine?
- homeburrero
- Team HB
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If you drop it down to about 3 gpg (51 ppm hardness as CaCO3) you will be at the low end of SCAA/SCAE optimal hardness recommendations. (For your 7.0 -8.5 gpg water, you would use 35% - 40% tap.) That is the hardness of the water that was used at the 2016 World brewing and barista championships, so it ought to be adequate as far as taste goes. I think it would probably have adequate alkalinity as well, but you might want to test your mix with an inexpensive hardness and alkalinity drop titration kit to be sure your diluted water has alkalinity in the 40 ppm or greater range. If your dilution does not give you the needed minimum alkalinity you may have corrosion issues, especially if your tap water has significant chloride ion. If necessary you could address low alkalinity by adding a small amount of bicarbonate (baking soda, or better yet, potassium bicarbonate) to your water mix. It doesn't take much - a tenth gram of baking soda in a gallon of water will raise your alkalinity by over 20 ppm.givemeespressofirst wrote:What hardness should I target to get good espresso and not accelerate the rate at which I have to decalcify my machine?
If you want to experiment with more minerals to see if it makes a taste difference, you could increase the proportion of tap water to come out at around 5 gpg (85 ppm as CaCO3) to see if that makes a difference. (For your 7.0 -8.5 gpg water, you would use 60% - 70% tap.) At this hardness, depending on the alkalinity it may or may not scale, but would not scale much even if you had alkalinity in the 80+ ppm range.
Once you have hardness and alkalinity numbers you can use the references that RyanJE pointed out to get a more definitive idea of scale and corrosion risks. I'd recommend Jim's Insanely Long Water FAQ, and the recently released SCAE water paper for explicit guidance. Beware that neither of those is an easy read.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
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IMO, the espresso world would be better off if everyone used RO or distilled water plus specific corrections. More consistent, more accurate exchange of data, etc.
- Hudson
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Check out the Zero water pitchers that some of us use. Basically will change the tds to around 0, and then you can use this water to mix with tap. It's very convenient and comes with a digital tds meter. Use the coupons on their site and it can be had for < $40 at bed bath and beyond or target.
LMWDP #534
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That's a start, but the TDS meters aren't the greatest. They are very inaccurate depending on what the disolved solids actually are and the readings are effected by temp. Best is what homeburrero suggested and get a reagent kit to test hardness and alkalinity.
But hey, that might not be for everyone...
But hey, that might not be for everyone...
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....
- homeburrero
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+1. I use it, and like that it saves me carrying gallons of distilled/purified home from the grocery store. Be aware that for high TDS water the filter cost can become uneconomical. I see different numbers for Houston water, but the most official one I've seen claims a TDS in the 100-250 ppm range (2013 report - here .) At that level you should get around 30 gallons from each filter ( https://www.zerowater.com/faq-filtratio ... r-life.php ) and the filters run about $10 - $15 each , so ~ $0.30 - $0.50 per gallon.Hudson wrote:Check out the Zero water pitchers that some of us use.
The TDS meter is very effective in telling you when the pitcher filter is used up - when it shows 6ppm or more, that means you need a new filter. You can also use it to keep an eye out for unexpected changes in your mineral content from the tap - just always read it at the same temperature. It's true that a conductivity measure alone is insufficient for deciding if your water is ideal, but they are handy and have their uses.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
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If you buy the zero water filters at Bed, Bath& Beyond, take advantage of their 20% off coupons (which, by the way, don't expire despite the date on the coupon)