cannonfodder wrote:I have had an errant tiny drop of water on the piston before.

Your application for membership in the OCDC is rejected!

jasonian wrote:...your initial attack...

Attack???
For the record, BuzzedLightyear made a 'humorous' comment on the technique in the video.
Statements that certain techniques have no positive effect do not constitute an attack.
We are both guilty of increasing the calibre in each salvo of the ensuing exchange. I do apologize to you and the readers for impugning your ethics.
PAX.

TimEggers wrote:Dan your friends experiences loosely follow mine where as I was big into the added steps in "fashioning a shot and preparing the basket" when I was first starting but now that I have been able to achieve a consistent level of espresso quality I have all but done away with everything beyond grind, dose, tamp then pull. When I did that my shots did get worse and a little less consistent (ok all over the map is more like it). But once I began to practice the simpler approach things began to improve. Long story short (if it's not to late) my shots now are every bit as even and delicious as my older "more prepared" shots and I'm not spending near the amount of time or fuss over getting there.

I've had the same experience as Tim. I tried the WDT, and I think it can certainly help consistency, but I never used it on a regular basis. I didn't want to add things to the ritual and make it any more complicated than it already is. No doubt that had an influence on my shots being all over the place at first, just as with Tim's. But I've now developed my own routine that has been giving me consistenly good (and mostly great) shots. And that's after six months with Anita.

Gentleman, can we call a truce to the heated debate on this topic? I think a lot of us really dislike anything that could be construed as a personal attack, and that's the primary reason I stopped reading alt.coffee posts. I've even noticed it has become more prevalent on CG. Let's keep HB as civil as possible, and agree to disagree. Cheers,

Justin

EDIT: I do think John Weiss deserves credit for creating WDT as a tool especially for new home baristas to use. I don't mean to discredit the technique in any way, just saying that I don't choose to use it.

Jasonian wrote:On a busy bar, time is of the essence, and using an extra towel for cleaning the tamper takes quite a long time compared to a simple twist of the wrist during the tamp.

Depends on work style IMO and doesn't have to take quite a long time if any extra time at all. If you work with a towel either over the shoulder or looped through an apron it can be an automatic sweep of the tamper piston across the towel motion after tamping. Ok, might actually add maybe a second or fraction thereof. I choose this method whether it's actually really necessary 'cuz also finish tamp with a no/low pressure twist.

I will tell you all my perspective on this. As a professional barista I don't find myself making spro at home nearly as often as yourselves, so I'm not going to pretend to be extremely versed in the WDT technique. I can tell you some reasons why I personally don't use it behind the bar, as well as ideas behind my dosing techniques at USBC. With the WDT, as some have posted earlier, it seems mainly a technique to overcome grinder flaws and the like. Even with a nice commercial grinder there can still be be similar problems with consistency in dosing. At Pt's we dose around 20 grams into a double basket. Our machines are LM Linea or GB5 depending on the store, but our techniques remain consistent. Since we dose pretty heavily, my first thought is that our grind is rather coarse and if you have played with your grinds much you may realize that the coarser the grind, the less it clumps. This, in combination with techniques such as spinning the pf, tapping, or settling the grinds by hand help us create consistent dosing. So in our circumstances there has been no need to use the WDT behind the bar since we train our employees to compensate in other ways when needed. I am a firm believer in the idea that there is no right or wrong way of doing things as long as desired flavor/product is achieved. I think that the Weiss Distribution Technique is completely valid. Is it the only way? No, but it certainly seems to work well and in the end that is what matters.

As far as tapping the pf during USBC, my reasoning for this was to achieve the best flavor possible as consistently as possible. I personally have changed my dosing technique tons of times and I still do. The biggest issue that I have been exposed to with tapping the pf when dosing is that there does seem to be a premature blonding of the shots from time to time. I discussed this with Barry Jarrett, and he is (and I am becoming so) under the impression that tapping and settling the fines is responsible for this anomaly. I am currently working on a consistent method of dosing 20 grams without tapping to settle the grounds. Hope this has helped, I'm always open to new ideas.

Pete

Afternoon Pete, and welcome to HB.

ThePete wrote: I am a firm believer in the idea that there is no right or wrong way of doing things as long as desired flavor/product is achieved. I think that the Weiss Distribution Technique is completely valid. Is it the only way? No, but it certainly seems to work well and in the end that is what matters.

Pete

That pretty much sums it all up, thanks.

Set your doser to the smallest setting possible - notice the baristas in competition are using many quick pulls of the doser to help distribute the grounds in the PF.

WDT in my humble opinion is way too much effort, too much gadgetry and time required. I set my Mazzer Mini to the lowest dose setting and use a lot of quick strokes on the doser to distribute the grounds, then a quick stockfleth maneuver and tamp. Advice from other helpful folks on this site taught me to do a no-force spin polish or risk breaking the side seal between the puck and the PF. Since then I have been pulling the best espresso ever - friends love it, girlfriends love it, family loves it. WDT not required.

Keep it simple. Even distribution is important, but not to the point where you have to cut the bottom off a yogurt cup and stir your grounds with a pick of some kind. Down with WDT.
best,
Don

Since economy of effort seems of interest, Polishing is a complete waste of time, other than smearing the oil on the tamper. Wipe it on a towel.

The doser setting has no effect when Paddle-Thwacking.
There is not enough coffee in the hopper to reach the top of the doser vane.

Please see How important is tamping? for my latest escapade

cafeIKE wrote: The doser setting has no effect when Paddle-Thwacking.
There is not enough coffee in the hopper to reach the top of the doser vane.

On my MACAP, the dosing is not determined by the full height of the doser vane, but by the height of a lower portion of the vane. As the dosing is adjusted, the lower portion expands or contracts. The top part of the vane extends much higher and has nothing to do with how much comes out per thwack. At the low setting it is less than 5g per thwack.

Matt

When paddle thwacking, I get about 0.5g per thwack [on the MaxH] doing 2 thwax / s.

Try thwacking sooner. And more often.

cafeIKE wrote:
In one of the above images, the puck is polished. Each had a single drop of water applied at the surface and the photo snapped within ~1s. There is no discernable difference to the naked eye or when viewed with a 10x loupe.

To my eye they're not the same, my guess is the one on the right is polished.