When dialing in, why is espresso weight so much more important than pour time?

#1: Post by **oscarnyc** » February 8th, 2023, 3:45 pm

Reading/watching dialing in how-to's and they all seem to target your grind for a specific brew ratio (for arguments sake a 1:2), with a fairly wide range of time - let's say 23-30 seconds. To the point that people use .1g accurate scales (on both ends).

Just curious as to why such a tight tolerance on weight (less than 1%) vs a wide tolerance on time (20%). Is the time the water spends in contact really that much less important to the quality of the extraction than the weight of the final product? Why is that?

IOW, why not target a specific time, and have a wider band for brew ratio?

February 8th, 2023, 3:52 pm

People can taste the difference.

#3: Post by **Jeff** » February 8th, 2023, 5:15 pm

Grind size, dose, and ratio seem to be "big" knobs that most people can easily control. Time becomes an output in this case.

You could fix time as an input and let ratio be your output. At least in my experience, I can more easily and repeatedly taste the difference in ratio than I can in time. Assuming you're extracting reasonably well, all shots will have about the same amount of "flavor" in them. A 1:3 ratio shot will taste significantly weaker, watered down, or less intense than will a 1:2 shot.

#4: Post by **yakster** » February 8th, 2023, 5:30 pm

Different roast levels and coffees can vary on how extractable they are and require more or less time to get a good tasting extraction. You can also pull a lower flowing shot for longer or a higher flowing shot for shorter and many other combinations so pour time seems more like a dependent variable in espresso quality.

#5: Post by **Jake_G** » February 8th, 2023, 5:52 pm

oscarnyc wrote:Just curious as to why such a tight tolerance on weight (less than 1%) vs a wide tolerance on time (20%).

Lots of good responses here already, but I'd add one more perspective:

Weight defines what your espresso is.
Time defines how that espresso was made.

So if you pull a 1:1 shot in 20s or a 1:1 shot in 40s, it is going to be a super concentrated 1:1 "ristretto" shot by definition. My money says the 40s shot will usually taste more balanced, but both shots are fundamentally the same beverage, just made differently.

Likewise, if you pull a 1:3 lungo in the same times as above, all three shots will be fundamentally "lungo", and none of them will taste anything like their ristretto counterparts above, even if the shot times are identical.

A 20.0s Lungo is nothing at all like a 20.0s Ristretto, because they are fundamentally different beverages with vastly different strengths and extraction levels. All the ristrettos will be "ristretto-ish" and all the lungos, "lungo-ish".

You're not going to say
"I like 20s shots, now to dial in if I prefer a kick-you-in-the-face ristretto or a smooth and balanced lungo."
You're just not.

You're going to settle on how strong you prefer your beverages first and then fine tune the time from there.

Cheers!

- Jake

February 8th, 2023, 6:46 pm

Thanks. Perhaps I should have made a more specific example to avoid some confusion: I'd say the most generic dial in recipe I see is an 18/36 that should fall around 27 seconds or so, with people acutely fixing on the weight and letting the time float +/- 3-5 seconds.

An alternative would be to focus at 27 second with an end weight that fluctuates between say 33-37 grams.

Everyone seems to have settled on option 1 as being the only way to do it, and I'm curious as to why. Is a 4g variance in end weight really that much more impactful than a 6 second variance in time for what is the same end goal (a well balanced normale )

#7: Post by **Jake_G** » February 8th, 2023, 7:57 pm

oscarnyc wrote:Is a 4g variance in end weight really that much more impactful than a 6 second variance in time for what is the same end goal (a well balanced normale )

Yes.

#8: Post by HB » February 9th, 2023, 10:26 am

Jake is understating it: Absolutely, positively, without a doubt, yes. But don't take our word for it, try it. An increase in the beverage weight of 4-6 grams will not be a subtle change in taste. But 4-6 seconds? It may well be indistinguishable, depending on the espresso machine.

February 9th, 2023, 10:29 am

Thank you! Now to find myself a reasonably priced small scale that can fit on my machine.

#10: Post by **Belt123** » February 9th, 2023, 11:00 am

If you're looking for a very reasonably priced scale: Decent Espresso has a $29 scale very basic scale that works for me.
FYI: It doesn't have a shot clock.