I went through exactly the same experience. Couldn't tell sour or bitter and used meat thermometer to check the temperature. Regarding sour of bitter, just think does it taste like you squeezed some lemon in your coffee or melted a piece of sweet dark chocolate? If the taste associates more with lemon, it is sour. Or even better, with bitter taste, you will KNOW it is bitter, NOT sour. So if you have doubts, it is most likely sour. And my meat thermometer showed 76 degrees as well. Put it in a cup with freshly boiled water, and it shows 96. So it works, and good enough to prove the point. And your grind looks very coarse and inconsistent, there are large and small particles there, which is not a good sign. I had the same consistency with a 20 dollar grinder, but yours costs 10x more, so I am surprised to see such results. I bought a $200 grinder as well, but Breville Dose Control Pro and it seems to give better results. But even if you get the best grinder ever, with such low temperature you will never know the taste of a great espresso. It will still be sour, better with longer pull, but still very sour. So if you are serious about espresso, you need a better tool. I don't have budget for a very good machine, so I only had one option in my price range - Gaggia Classic Pro. But reading some reviews about problems with temperature control, I was reluctant to gamble with another machine that may need mods. So, I went for guaranteed great results in my price range with a little bit more of elbow grease than Gaggia and bought Cafelat Robot. The Robot arrived at my doorsteps, gently lifted me up, and took to a Coffee Paradise . Every shot is sweet and slightly bitter, no sourness at all. So I think you should start planning for a better tool, and unfortunately a better grinder as well.

VoidedTea wrote:I went through exactly the same experience. Couldn't tell sour or bitter and used meat thermometer to check the temperature. Regarding sour of bitter, just think does it taste like you squeezed some lemon in your coffee or melted a piece of sweet dark chocolate? If the taste associates more with lemon, it is sour. Or even better, with bitter taste, you will KNOW it is bitter, NOT sour. So if you have doubts, it is most likely sour. And my meat thermometer showed 76 degrees as well. Put it in a cup with freshly boiled water, and it shows 96. So it works, and good enough to prove the point. And your grind looks very coarse and inconsistent, there are large and small particles there, which is not a good sign. I had the same consistency with a 20 dollar grinder, but yours costs 10x more, so I am surprised to see such results. I bought a $200 grinder as well, but Breville Dose Control Pro and it seems to give better results. But even if you get the best grinder ever, with such low temperature you will never know the taste of a great espresso. It will still be sour, better with longer pull, but still very sour. So if you are serious about espresso, you need a better tool. I don't have budget for a very good machine, so I only had one option in my price range - Gaggia Classic Pro. But reading some reviews about problems with temperature control, I was reluctant to gamble with another machine that may need mods. So, I went for guaranteed great results in my price range with a little bit more of elbow grease than Gaggia and bought Cafelat Robot. The Robot arrived at my doorsteps, gently lifted me up, and took to a Coffee Paradise . Every shot is sweet and slightly bitter, no sourness at all. So I think you should start planning for a better tool, and unfortunately a better grinder as well.

Thanks for your help.

To be honest, after checking the pictures, it looks less even than what I really see so I think I took the picture of a different coffee (I have several so I may have mistaken) or I badly took it.
What I see with my eyes looks pretty even.
Not trying to defend my grinder because I would not recommend it at all, though it's not about the grind itself that I have an issue with.
Anyway, this is for another discussion

About the taste, I have a hard time remembering what a lemon or dark chocolate ... but I'll try to buy some to compare.

Finally, about the water temperature ... I was afraid it would be the case ... I think I will give up on this machine and will keep on using the pressurized filter, which incidentally, makes the fresh beans enjoyable. Maybe not the best I could get but at least enjoyable.
I looked into the cafelat robot and now I want it, lol.
I'll buy it when I can get some free space in my small kitchen.

kurisutofu wrote:Thanks for your help.

I looked into the cafelat robot and now I want it, lol.
I'll buy it when I can get some free space in my small kitchen.

Well, just Google espresso grind or something, I am sure you will find pictures or videos to compare to your grind and decide. If pressurized filter helps to make better results, it sounds good too. There is not much we can do about water temperature, they just put too much safety into these consumer appliances to keep the cost down. Maybe some hacks could be done to replace thermostat controller, but I have no idea.

I have been using Robot for the second week now and do like it a lot. Of course, there are machines out there for the same price that are without a doubt good alternatives, like Gaggia Classic Pro, but I too have a limited counter space and that alone swayed my preference toward Robot. With Gaggia, I would have to buy a bigger kitchen cart, which would add another 200-300 dollars to the cost. Limited space was the reason why I chose Dedica in the first place, it could barely fit between a blender and a grinder on my cart. The Robot, on the other hand, fits surprisingly anywhere. You can put it on the shelf or in the cabinet if you want. In my case, it fits on the same tray that I use for coffee bag, PF, coffee spoon, knock basket, etc. The tray is probably 10x10". The Robot just replaced the PF from Dedica, I didn't even put it on the cart where Dedica was. Everyone in the family loves Robot's look and call "him" Robbi. It's a great conversation piece for sure.

I've always been saying " It's the beans, not the equipment ".
However looking at your equipment I'd say it IS the equipment.
That grinder with 18 ? settings isn t good enough.
Probably the Delonghi coffeemaker also is substandard.

VoidedTea wrote: I have been using Robot for the second week now and do like it a lot. Of course, there are machines out there for the same price that are without a doubt good alternatives, like Gaggia Classic Pro, but I too have a limited counter space and that alone swayed my preference toward Robot. With Gaggia, I would have to buy a bigger kitchen cart, which would add another 200-300 dollars to the cost. Limited space was the reason why I chose Dedica in the first place, it could barely fit between a blender and a grinder on my cart. The Robot, on the other hand, fits surprisingly anywhere. You can put it on the shelf or in the cabinet if you want. In my case, it fits on the same tray that I use for coffee bag, PF, coffee spoon, knock basket, etc. The tray is probably 10x10". The Robot just replaced the PF from Dedica, I didn't even put it on the cart where Dedica was. Everyone in the family loves Robot's look and call "him" Robbi. It's a great conversation piece for sure.

You make a good pitch
I'll have to look into getting my own Robbie!

Hello, were you able to sort things out?

I've been using a Dedica for about 5 years and went through a similar route. I was using pre-ground Illy and Lavazza espresso with the pressurized portafilter and enjoyed it. Then got a Baratza Encore so I could grind my own beans, still using the pressurized portafilter -- still good and enjoyable for me. Decided to upgrade again with unpressurized basket and naked portafilter -- trouble starts

The fine setting of the Encore could still work but inconsistently -- too fine, it would choke the machine. Then one setting course and shot would be too fast. Sooo.. the solution to everything is to upgrade. I got a Breville/Sage Smart Grinder Pro. It had a lot more settings so I was able to dial in to do:

18g dose
36g espresso out
2 or 3 setting on the SGP

I would dose into the portafilter with a dosing ring to keep things neat, mix with a WDT tool, knock on the counter to settle in grinds, remove dosing ring and use an OCD, then tamp. Put in the portafilter, place a cup under on a scale.

I then press the one shot button and you hear it do a preinfusion, so I quickly press the single dose button again to stop the water. I count to 8 seconds, then press the single dose button again and don't let it go, so it will go through another preinfusion then pull the shot watching the output weight. When it hits 32g I let go of the button and it stops, but some espresso continues to come out and I wait until it hits 36 grams.. then I pull the cup and scale, without waiting to finish the remaining drops.

So that's worked for me.. I enjoy what I've been producing though I wouldn't know how good higher-end machines would produce, and I really don't want to fall back into the rabbit hole just now.

I did upgrade to a Specialita because I got tired of the "clumping" from the SGP and I do like my workflow better -- the taste? Well maybe it's psychological but I do like it more

I hope this helps maximize your use of our humble machine.. but if it gives you more headache than pleasure then.. it's about time...

Good luck and happy brewing!

A friend of mine he had same experience with that grinder, maybe in some case some technician can repositioning the burrs regulation to achieve a bit finer, but maybe if you like drink a decent espresso, a new grinder should be the wise move.

Pinoybrewer wrote:Hello, were you able to sort things out?

I've been using a Dedica for about 5 years ...
I hope this helps maximize your use of our humble machine.. but if it gives you more headache than pleasure then.. it's about time...

Good luck and happy brewing!

I'm so stupid, I didn't even think of dosing the output along with the time!
I will try that this weekend!

I also made a stopwatch app for the iPhone to start and stop the timer with the voice so I can time while using my hands on the espresso machine (I'm releasing the app this weekend on the app store if all goes well! wohoo! Not that anyone other than me would find it useful, lol).

I'd like to buy a better grinder and I really wanted the niche zero but it does not work in Japan (voltage is different here). I'm not sure what other nice grinder there is.

I'm also probably going to switch to the Cafelat Robot soon but first I'll try your technique!

Do let us know how it's going!

Just wanted to update the thread about some thing those more experienced here could comment on.

I was recently able to upgrade to a 'proper' machine with a 58mm portafilter, pre-infusion at 3 bar and regular pressure at 9 bar. I must say I never imagined espresso could actually taste that good!

In any case, I noticed that because its a 58mm portafilter, the puck is a lot thinner than a puck from a dedica which is smaller in diameter but about 2x thicker. Because the puck is so thick, could this be causing the problem in channeling and extraction? With a 58mm wide but thin puck, the extraction would seem to be more even vs a smaller diameter but taller puck which is more prone to channeling and where grounds at the bottom of the filter end up being over extracted?

Of course, its also complicated by the Dedica's temperature and pressure instability, so a perfect storm...