WDT - Effect of Grinds Stirring - Page 3

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
pcrussell50

#21: Post by pcrussell50 »

DaveB wrote:Those extractions look fantastic! I'm ready to assemble my own "Frankenstein" tool, and will likely buy one of Eric's when they're finally available. Were you able to shove the handle ends of the needles into the cork or did you drill pilot holes?
(Dead horse alert)...
In my mind, the real work is done in the aggressive mixing before the final distribution. So me, I'm not particularly hung up one way or another on the tool for the final distribution/leveling. For years I used a dissecting needle. That said, lately I've been using a quad of 4mm 3D printer nozzle cleaning needles, in a printed knob/handle. One could just as well use a bit of cork as well. It seems to do a bang up job of fluffing and leveling my grounds, once funneled into the portafilter after aggressive mixing in a separate vessel. The needles are cheap and just stiff enough. Could be made more or less stiff depending on how far you push them through the cork.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

PIXIllate
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#22: Post by PIXIllate »

DaveB wrote:Those extractions look fantastic! I'm ready to assemble my own "Frankenstein" tool, and will likely buy one of Eric's when they're finally available. Were you able to shove the handle ends of the needles into the cork or did you drill pilot holes?
I drilled out the cork with a 5/64 (.78mm) drill bit. They fit tight enough that there is no problem with them working their way loose.
pcrussell50 wrote:(Dead horse alert)...
In my mind, the real work is done in the aggressive mixing before the final distribution. So me, I'm not particularly hung up one way or another on the tool for the final distribution/leveling. For years I used a dissecting needle. That said, lately I've been using a quad of 4mm 3D printer nozzle cleaning needles, in a printed knob/handle. One could just as well use a bit of cork as well. It seems to do a bang up job of fluffing and leveling my grounds, once funneled into the portafilter after aggressive mixing in a separate vessel. The needles are cheap and just stiff enough. Could be made more or less stiff depending on how far you push them through the cork.

-Peter

I agree here. When I started doing an initial rough mixing/large stirring action before I do the spirograph rotations things really started to fill in more suddenly and the extraction cone got larger. Or course these are all just visual queues and I understand the real question being asked here is what is responsible for what and why things that seem to make extractions more even also lower EY%. I can't play that game without a refractometer.

My full routine is to grind directly from the Vario into the portafilter with OE funnel attached, 2 firm taps on a silicone mat to settle, WDT routine with 6x 0.4mm needles as detailed above, remove OE funnel, 5-6 light taps while paying attention to try to hit the matt with the bottom of the portafilter VERY level, tamp with Kafatek Levtamp to insure a level tamp.

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luca (original poster)
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#23: Post by luca (original poster) »

RapidCoffee wrote:Thanks Jake. Obviously there's many questions left to be answered. In particular, what is the impact on espresso extraction dynamics (and EY) of
* stirring grinds (to break clumps and randomize grinds)
* shaking basket (to level grinds)
* tapping basket (to settle grinds)
* nutation and "distribution" tools to level surface
* type of grinder (flat burr vs conical)
* beans and roast level

At least this is a start. :?
Well ... and then you add what happens when you compare condition A and condition B, adjusting grind setting for equal EY?

What happens when you compare condition A and condition B, adjusting grind setting for equal pour time?
LMWDP #034 | 2011: Q Grader Exam, Brewer's Cup #3, Australian Cup Tasting #1

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Jake_G
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#24: Post by Jake_G »

Exactly.

What else are we gonna do this winter? :mrgreen:

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RapidCoffee
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#25: Post by RapidCoffee »

luca wrote:Well ... and then you add what happens when you compare condition A and condition B, adjusting grind setting for equal EY?
Data dimensionality is a bitch, ain't it? :twisted:
John

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luca (original poster)
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#26: Post by luca (original poster) »

Jake_G wrote:Exactly.

What else are we gonna do this winter? :mrgreen:
And every winter for the next decade ...
LMWDP #034 | 2011: Q Grader Exam, Brewer's Cup #3, Australian Cup Tasting #1

PIXIllate
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#27: Post by PIXIllate »

Here's what my current WDT routine looks like with the 6x 0.4mm tool. Start with rough mixing and then stirring at the bottom, middle and "raking" the top. I would call this a long puck prep. The results have been worth it, for me at least.

I thought it might be useful as a point of comparison/discussion to what others are doing.

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rrosini

#28: Post by rrosini »

Thank you all for posting this thread. I'm new to the espresso game (started mid-2020). The discussion and videos on here were very helpful.

I made a WDT tool and I also use the technique of grinding into a large steaming milk jug and shaking it. I feel like shaking the milk jug creates even more clumps. John, from Decent, seems to get good results from that method so maybe I'm doing it incorrectly. Can anyone post a video of their method of shaking a container to brake up clumps?

I'll trying making a WDT tool like the ones in this video and using that technique shown in the last video.

Also, I've heard that tapping the PF onto the counter (as suggested and shown) can have negative effects. I'm assuming that the WDT technique evens the distribution grind and the tamping just removes air pockets. Seems weird to have to tap the PF on the counter when the tamper compresses the puck right after...

PIXIllate
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#29: Post by PIXIllate »

rrosini wrote: Seems weird to have to tap the PF on the counter when the tamper compresses the puck right after...
The final tapping is to level the bed and fill in the small ring gap left by the OE funnel.

rrosini

#30: Post by rrosini » replying to PIXIllate »


Thank you for the clarification.