Vivace espresso, measuring by volume, big crema

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.

#1: Post by AuFinger »

I'm playing with Vivace decaf and aiming for David Schomer's/Vivace Cafe's standard pull. The struggle is they go by rough volume of 21-25ml including crema, but I'm pulling some major crema. It seems more than what they're getting in the videos they've posted online. Basically 50% of the shot is crema. I'm currently five days from roast. Perhaps they generally brew a little older than that in house or just different equipment. It's not that important why, but illustrative of the advantages of measuring output by weight.

Anyway, I'm curious what others have may worked out for yield weight with their Vivace beans and Vivace's volume process?

As an example, this morning I did 20g in, no infusion, and shooting for 27-35 seconds w/ a tighter target on the lower to mid range. I've got 21g out in 27 seconds and that measured 40ml. However, after I stirred it settled down to 25ml.

I realize crema settles, but wondering if that might be a more accurate volume? I'm assuming not, but just wondering.

Also I'm wondering if anyone knows if they do a pre-infusion in the cafe? I haven't found a reference to that.

The shot above tastes sublime, so I'm good there (even though I want to stretch this last shot to 30 second or so). So, I'm not looking for advice in dialing in for taste, I'm just pondering the ml vs g and crema situation right now as a technical exercise.

If anyone is curious, I'm working on a Niche (above is a 12 grind @ my calibration) and a Silvia Pro X at 201 degrees and unmodified pressure settings. I'm using a bottomless portafilter w/ a 19-22g Pullman basket and 56.5mm bottom paper filter.

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#2: Post by cafeIKE »

AuFinger wrote:The shot above tastes sublime
Move on. Taste trumps numbers Six Ways to Sunday...

vecchi della seattle
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#3: Post by vecchi della seattle »

I live about 4 blocks from Vivace and poured the Dolce for years on my Silvia (and mini mazzer). When I got the E61/HX machine I experienced exactly what you have; a giant crema bomb. Last time I was in there they were pouring 20g in/20g out ristrettos from a Synesso machine that were not a crema bomb. In looking for a replacement I landed on Blue Star Coffee Roaster's Espresso Blend. I see you're in MI but you might want to try an order. ... esso-blend

AuFinger (original poster)

#4: Post by AuFinger (original poster) replying to vecchi della seattle »

Thanks for the rec. I'm always looking for good beans for my espresso, especially with a decaf.

I gave Vivace a try because it's right what I'm looking for in my espresso... Not third-wavy citric/fruity that a lot of people are excited about, but traditional chocolate-caramel warm hugs... without being roasted to bitter charcoal. This is why I've been curious on trying to replicate what the serve. I'd like to get the Vivace experience without buying a plane ticket.

Are you saying they're doing 1:1 (approximately) by weight? That's kind of what I'm assuming, but what I've been wondering.

vecchi della seattle
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#5: Post by vecchi della seattle »

"Inventor of Latte Art and the PID introduction to Espresso machines" Dave is pretty old skool 2nd wave and likes a Full City/Medium Roast with a Chocolate base (probably a washed Brazil) and no fruit that I can detect. The ristretto 1:1 is all he will pull for an espresso in his shops. They use the equivalent of an LM Double basket. The light roast/fruity/natural style seemed to take over with the new Seattle roasters so I ended up roasting my own. No regrets there.

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#6: Post by Kaffee Bitte »

Vivace is located in Seattle. The Northwest is where triple ristrettos are standard and have been since the 1990s. Many of the shops pull in that range. My time in Portland was the same. Never a normale or longer shot in a shop.
Lynn G.
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#7: Post by maccompatible »

Just went to Vivace a couple weeks ago. They had about 8 modded niche zeros, all with huge hoppers on top. I had to double check with the barista I ordered the right thing because I swear there was only like a half ounce of liquid in the cup after I watched them stuff the basket as full as possible. That's their standard espresso. I'd guess like 20g in and AT MOST 16-18g out. Quite an experience, and completely different from the 2:1 shots I was pulling at home with the same beans.
"Wait. People drink coffee just for the caffeine??"
LMWDP #628

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#8: Post by Felice »

With fresh coffee, I find bottomless porta filters kind of a pain as they allow for so much crema. If it tastes good, you're doing it right.