Utterly lost - I am simply unable to produce a cup of espresso - Page 5

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
SJM
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Joined: 17 years ago

#41: Post by SJM »

ClintFeedwood wrote:I was not trying to be learn-resistent and apologize if I was giving of that vibe. I simply wanted to find a way to drink lots of nice coffee while keeping my intake on the jittery stuff as low as possible.

I will probably soon enough have a go at the double basket as many of you pointed out. Just to make sure; Currently I have a 12g & 16g basket - a "double" basket in that case would be the 16g one, right?
And if I came off as insulting, I apologize.
I understand your objective and simply think it is constraining your learning.
End of my intrusion into this thread.

Susan

ClintFeedwood (original poster)
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Joined: 3 years ago

#42: Post by ClintFeedwood (original poster) »

No harm done or offense taken.

I really appreciate your inputs. I've been receiving many great tips so far and a lot of them were pointing me to the bigger basket. One day I too will manage to pull a great shot... for some reason I also just imagined myself to have a bit of an easier time with this ahaha :mrgreen:

JohanR
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Joined: 3 years ago

#43: Post by JohanR »

For pulling 7g singles I would recommend the VST 7g or similar with straight edges, together with a 41 mm tamper and a Tidaka funnel (15mm). I started out with doubles because the single basket that came with my machine was hopeless. But after getting the VST single basket it just worked to the same extent as for doubles (also using a VST).
Btw - Solis seems to be a Swiss firm that also sells rebranded gear. For example there is also the Solis Eureka Mignon grinder.
Johan

Pressino
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#44: Post by Pressino »

ClintFeedwood wrote:I will probably soon enough have a go at the double basket as many of you pointed out. Just to make sure; Currently I have a 12g & 16g basket - a "double" basket in that case would be the 16g one, right?
Yes, the 16 would seem better just because it gives you more room to experiment (grind/dose adjustment) than the 12.

And I still think it's your grinder. Even the stalest coffee can be ground fine enough to choke a machine...though it would otherwise taste awful no matter how you brew it.

ClintFeedwood (original poster)
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Joined: 3 years ago

#45: Post by ClintFeedwood (original poster) »

Oh man, thanks for the big write up. I am starting to feel like I am drowning in all the information and how much I seem to be doing wrong :shock:

First thing I will do in the coming week is adjust the OPV to reach 9bar on a blind PF. Then over the course of the next weeks I wanna try the following:
1. I will find quality coffee bars and try their espressos and if I like it, ask for their roasts (time, place, degree of roast).
2. Practise with the "bad" beans I have, to simply get more experience on how to pull a shot. Even if it's bad it should help me learn what impacts grind size, ratios and extraction times will have on the "soup" that I am tasting.
3. Get myself espresso glasses.
4. Adjust my grinder as you mentioned. But the burr "chirping" is something I don't fully understand yet. Wouldn't the "chirping" indicate that the burrs are grinding on metal/each other? Do I leave it on the setting it started to chirp or adjust a single seeting higher so it doesn't? :oops:

I hope to not be asking too much questions either.. I realize that I am really not even close to make this work apparently and I keep asking more and more.

ClintFeedwood (original poster)
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#46: Post by ClintFeedwood (original poster) »

Yes. To my understanding Solis is just a Swiss Name of Breville (Stolar, Gastroback, and other names).

Ben C
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#47: Post by Ben C »

Just to reiterate what I said for the sake of clarity

I usually aim for classic double brew ratios with forgiving dark roasts. 1/2 - 1/3 in 25 - 30 seconds.

When I first started using my BZ10 my shots were always fast and watery. After some internet research and consulting this board the solution I was given was this-

Brew pressure should be about 1 bar below the OPV setting. The vast majority of machines are calibrated for about a 9 bar brew pressure. The BZ10's OPV is set to 12 . Notice on your pressure gauge the red notch at 12. If you put a blind filter in the needle should hit that. This correlates with the Bezzera factory tour video with Luca Bezzera explaining that their vibe pump machines are set for a brew pressure of 11.

When I started aiming for 11 bars the other variables (time and volume) fell into place and I no longer have problems with fast shots. If you search the internet for "BZ10 brew pressure" or "BZ10 user experience" I think you will find several conversations just like this one.

I suspect there is some advice on this thread form people who just assume an OPV calibrated for 9bar because, to be fair, that's the norm. This machine is a bit quirky.

As for adjusting the OPV, I skimmed through several years worth of message board user experiences. It looks like when the BZ10 first came out the OPV was not adjustable. Then after a while they sold an adjustable valve separately that the user had to install. Then eventually they made the adjustable valve built in the machine. But since I can't find official easy to follow instructions for a layman like me to crack it open, I've decided to leave it as is.

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cafeIKE
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#48: Post by cafeIKE »

ClintFeedwood wrote:Oh man, thanks for the big write up. I am starting to feel like I am drowning in all the information and how much I seem to be doing wrong :shock:
No worries. H-B is a great community. Sadly, as is the case in far too many online fora, many contributors don't read the topic from the beginning before posting and offer advice on how to drive @ Le Mans when the topic is getting across town.
ClintFeedwood wrote: 4. Adjust my grinder as you mentioned. But the burr "chirping" is something I don't fully understand yet. Wouldn't the "chirping" indicate that the burrs are grinding on metal/each other? Do I leave it on the setting it started to chirp or adjust a single seeting higher so it doesn't? :oops:
I'm sorry I didn't search out using your grinder before I mentioned the "chirp" test. The Solis may be limited by design so that cannot happen. If you can turn the adjustment knob until it stops at minimum and there is no chirp, then the zero point is the finest you can grind. Online videos have shown there is some play in a new grinder. This will impact shot consistency. I would not single dose with this grinder.

From what I've read, some of these GwPP* is they have a relatively short life. Some like Baratza can be rebuilt. Others, sadly not. Every six months or so, clean the grinder thoroughly and verify the spindle play has not appreciably changed.

For grinders with a rotating burr carrier, the "chirp" point is for reference. You definitely wouldn't want to run a grinder at this point all the time. Ideally, you want to run the machine at least ¼-½ rotation away to allow a reasonable adjustment range.

* Grinders with Plastic Parts

Don't waste your time futzing with stale coffee. You already know that it is not suitable. Nothing else of value can be learned.

There seem to be some fine roasters in Zurich: google search for coffee roasters zurich switzerland. Stay away from 3rd wave, light roasts and go for medium-dark traditional espresso roasts.

I still think you should stick with single baskets as that's how you desire to consume the caffeine.

The VST may help, but I'm sceptical. It may help with 3rd wave, lighter roasts, but many billions of delish 'spro have been pulled through generic single baskets.

You may want to read Review: Espresso Makers. The Editors Pick BZ07 is similar to the BZ10 and rated it higher than a Vibiemme DB. ! ?

More questions:
The higher the boiler pressure, the higher the brew temperature. What is the pressure in the steam boiler?
The Breville Smart Grinder Pro has more adjustments than the non-Pro. What is the exact model of the grinder?

Normally with a heat exchanger, one has to flush to lower the group temperature.
Do you flush before a shot?
Do you get a lot of steam for a few seconds if you lift the brew lever when the machine has been idle for a while?
Is the machine on all the time or just for a while before a shot?

ClintFeedwood (original poster)
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#49: Post by ClintFeedwood (original poster) »

Thank you for the reply.

When putting in a blind filter the machine will max out at 11bar. So I will be aiming for 10bar when pulling shots.
Seeing that you are using a BZ10 too I am curios to what kind of beans you are using? While I probably won't be able to get the same ones, I still wanna see if I can get something close to it :)

ClintFeedwood (original poster)
Posts: 18
Joined: 3 years ago

#50: Post by ClintFeedwood (original poster) »

cafeIKE wrote: I'm sorry I didn't search out using your grinder before I mentioned the "chirp" test. The Solis may be limited by design so that cannot happen. If you can turn the adjustment knob until it stops at minimum and there is no chirp, then the zero point is the finest you can grind. Online videos have shown there is some play in a new grinder. This will impact shot consistency. I would not single dose with this grinder.
I will start my answer with a question: You say to not single dose with the grinder. What exactly do you mean with that? Grinding only for a single shot?
From what I've read, some of these GwPP* is they have a relatively short life. Some like Baratza can be rebuilt. Others, sadly not. Every six months or so, clean the grinder thoroughly and verify the spindle play has not appreciably changed.
I also read that there will be no way to replace any parts. That sure is unfortunate for sustainability but that's a horse I will ride once it comes down to it. Until then I will make sure to clean it as often as you mentioned.
More questions:
The higher the boiler pressure, the higher the brew temperature. What is the pressure in the steam boiler?
I made a picture for you (during a blind filter run). The top gauge indicates boiler pressure.
The Breville Smart Grinder Pro has more adjustments than the non-Pro. What is the exact model of the grinder?
I have the Smart Grinder PRO.
I have found a few reviews and reports online. This one particulary might be interesting as it displays a few graphs about the grind capabilites.
There is also this video of the same people using the grinder and achieving espressos with a grind setting of 9 already! So yeah, beans are be a major problem in my set up... (while it's in german, the english auto translation is "acceptable" but ofc you won't have to go through it)
This to me also indicates that in the very least, the machine is capable of grinding good enough (emphasize being on good enough, not good).
Normally with a heat exchanger, one has to flush to lower the group temperature. Do you flush before a shot?
yes. Everytime before and after a shot.
Do you get a lot of steam for a few seconds if you lift the brew lever when the machine has been idle for a while?
There is no lever for the brew head. It's a push button. There is a lever for hot water and steam. THe hot water spout tends to have quite some steam coming from it when pouring water (but I am not sure if it's too much, as I lack a frame of reference).
Is the machine on all the time or just for a while before a shot?
The machine is usually on only when I will make myself a coffee. I let it warm up for roughly 30 minutes to make sure all is warm an ready and once I am done with the coffee (as I don't drink much during the week) will turn it off. On weekends it has run for a whole day a few times already.


On an unrelated note; I do have tried an espresso at a "relatively" decent looking coffe bar today. It tasted, well, good? Pretty much what I expected but I think in this case I also lack a frame of reference. More over this was not a coffee exclusive bar / high quality one. So I won't make this my reference and on top of that they couldn't tell me anything about their beans either...