Using WDT for distribution but puck surface is choppy - Is this OK? - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
User avatar
BaristaBoy E61
Posts: 3512
Joined: 9 years ago

#11: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

RapidCoffee wrote:Hi Julian. Most so-called "distribution" tools are actually leveling tools. I am not a fan because there is no good way to determine the correct height/depth setting (which presumably changes with basket, dose, coffee, etc.).
Experience is a wonderful guide. I have no problem adjusting our Mahlgut Palm Dozer & Tamper.

Julian, the shot you posted of your portafilter basket lacks definition but looks really sick! It looks like you're not grinding fine enough.

How many seconds does your shot run (grams of coffee in verses espresso out)?

Are you using a naked portafilter?
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

Ken5
Posts: 977
Joined: 4 years ago

#12: Post by Ken5 »

Can't really know what is going on with the photo of the basket, could be an illusion from the lighting, but that looks more like poking a skewer in and out rather than possible lines left from dragging needles through the bed. Weird texture.

Advertisement
User avatar
Derryisreal
Supporter ♡
Posts: 123
Joined: 3 years ago

#13: Post by Derryisreal »

In my experience, the thinner the needles, the better. 0.4 mm is too thick, I am currently using a Sworksdesign WDT with nine 0.22mm needles with spring base. Works excellently. The tool is somewhat pricey, but it is a night and day difference from DIY solutions.
Light roasts are to me what garlic is to vampires.

JHCCoffee (original poster)
Posts: 81
Joined: 6 years ago

#14: Post by JHCCoffee (original poster) »

Hi all. Thanks for the several excellent suggestions. They are appreciated. I just ordered a WDT Tool via Etsy that has 10 needles of 0.4 mm each and hope that will help. If not, I will go for 0.25 mm needles.

Re the grind size in the photo, I cannot recollect the specific grind fineness, but do target about 30 seconds after pre-infusion. I think that the problem that you see in the photo is due to: a) excess initial clumping produced by my Eureka Mignon, b) static electricity (I have ordered a water mist bottle, to do RDT to combat that), and c) my current 2 needle/thick needle tool.

If you have a moment, please see my other post that asks how to reduce clumping in a Eureka Mignon grinder: Solutions for Eureka Mignon: a) clumping, b) grind retention

Thanks everyone for your helpful and continued suggestions.

Vindibona1
Posts: 141
Joined: 7 years ago

#15: Post by Vindibona1 replying to JHCCoffee »

I have had the same issues as presented throughout this thread. I don't recall whether it was earlier in this thread but a similar one in 2020, but someone said that the VST baskets are prone to spritzing. I was wondering about that as that is what I experienced. But without having read that first, I switched to an IMS basket I had on hand and did not experience the spritzing, but two columns for a few seconds before combining into one.

I've got several DIY WDT tools and a leveler. I started having issues a few days ago, but it was after I adjusted the leveler to go deeper into the PF. I backed it off a bit, but I think I need to do more. I never should have messed with it as I have only had issues indicating channeling the last few days. My prep with the WDT looks like it doesn't really help much, making the grinds look "pock marked". How does that make the grinds in the PF more consistent?

I've just examined my DIY WTD tools and remade one. I had been using sewing needles measuring .81mm, showing a 4 prong one though I have a single .81mm. and just did a 4 prong one with .66 needles. I had previously made a single from a toothpick filed to 1.5mm, but I suspect that is overall too thick. I don't know what I did, but only recently have I had issues with my naked PF drips. Never had spurts before or one main stream with a smaller sub-stream near the edge. It was maddening. But as I mentioned, going to the IMS basket seems to have helped (I think). I think my tamping is consistent. I don't worry about how much pressure in pounds, but when I feel the puck has compressed as much as it can without applying a huge amount of pressure, I stop tamping. Visually my tamps are even across.



kris772
Supporter ♡
Posts: 205
Joined: 2 years ago

#16: Post by kris772 »

I have a WDT. I don't use it. Not dependable results per naked pf. Bottom of puck not consistent. I grind into (a pf funnel on) the basket, and then, holding the funnel so it doesn't fly off, I thunk basket/funnel/pfholder on a firm surface 5-10times. Then I scrape the top of the coffee with the edge of the funnel or finger to even it up(it's usually slightly slope-ed so just level the slope, sorta), and then smush it down with a tamper. random medium. The bottom of the puck is determined by the thunking. The smushed top doesn't seem to really matter(Ian pointed this out and it seems to be true.) . Smooth top. Easy pull. Much better than when I tried a WDT(8-needle from amazon).

Generally use ordinary "18g" ridged basket with 19.0g ->40g, 20secs from first drip(~6sec before first drip). This seems to work with little variation for the 3 different beans I currently have in the freezer. (just ordered more Courthouse).

I initially used a bottomless pf to assure technique fine and then used regular pf as tired of continually cleaning off front of machine.

Currently (outside) boiler PID to 223(pressure ~ 0.8 )(plenty of steam for latte-ing), optional 1sec flush, and lock and pull. Very hard to screw up. Yum.

The one I don't use
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09WD ... UTF8&psc=1
Life is too short for bad espresso! - Thunk-ed, NOT stirred!

User avatar
Jeff
Team HB
Posts: 6803
Joined: 19 years ago

#17: Post by Jeff »

Two that are worth using, in my opinion:

LeverCraft: https://levercraftcoffee.com/products/l ... ion-tool-1

JKim Makes: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1185798417 ... t-assembly

I prefer the LeverCraft tool. I keep the JKim Makes one at work with my Robot and JX-Pro

Advertisement
JHCCoffee (original poster)
Posts: 81
Joined: 6 years ago

#18: Post by JHCCoffee (original poster) »

Vindibona1 wrote:I have had the same issues as presented throughout this thread. I don't recall whether it was earlier in this thread but a similar one in 2020, but someone said that the VST baskets are prone to spritzing. I was wondering about that as that is what I experienced. But without having read that first, I switched to an IMS basket I had on hand and did not experience the spritzing, but two columns for a few seconds before combining into one.

I've got several DIY WDT tools and a leveler. I started having issues a few days ago, but it was after I adjusted the leveler to go deeper into the PF. I backed it off a bit, but I think I need to do more. I never should have messed with it as I have only had issues indicating channeling the last few days. My prep with the WDT looks like it doesn't really help much, making the grinds look "pock marked". How does that make the grinds in the PF more consistent?

I've just examined my DIY WTD tools and remade one. I had been using sewing needles measuring .81mm, showing a 4 prong one though I have a single .81mm. and just did a 4 prong one with .66 needles. I had previously made a single from a toothpick filed to 1.5mm, but I suspect that is overall too thick. I don't know what I did, but only recently have I had issues with my naked PF drips. Never had spurts before or one main stream with a smaller sub-stream near the edge. It was maddening. But as I mentioned, going to the IMS basket seems to have helped (I think). I think my tamping is consistent. I don't worry about how much pressure in pounds, but when I feel the puck has compressed as much as it can without applying a huge amount of pressure, I stop tamping. Visually my tamps are even across.


image
I did some more research on this, including watching the video on the Decent Espresso page about their "Puck Raking" (ie 0.4 mm WDT) tool. https://decentespresso.com/rake And another video (that I cannot find at the moment) where a fellow tests 0.25, 0.30, 0.35, 0.40 and even 0.50 mm acupuncture needles in a WDT tool. Conclusions: 0.25 does not distribute sufficiently, and if there are too many needles (like six to eight), some bend closely together and create paths/channels in the distributed mound. 0.50 mm is too stiff and moves too much coffee around, causing the problems that you and I have been having. Decent Espresso believes that 0.40 mm is ideal; an associate at Decent prefers 0.35 mm. I am betting that a tool with say eight 0.35 mm acu needles, some straight and some angled outwards, will work best. Another option is a tool with fewer (say 4) 0.25 mm needles. Or.... a 0.40 mm tool (with 6 to 8 needles) for deep WDT and another with 0.25 mm needles for surface raking. Then tamp in level manner (I use a self leveling tamper). I also suspect that if I do too much (disturb the grounds too much) I will end up with uneven distribution or channeling. So, I ordered a 0.40 WDT tool on Etsy. And a 3D printer cleaning kit on Amazon, with twelve 0.35 and twelve 0.40 needles (and two each of the 0.25 and 0.30 needles). I plan to test deep WDT and surface raking of the mounds; fingers crossed that I see an improvement in shot distribution and flow. And hopefully taste. Maybe even the odd God Shot. Will report back.

PIXIllate
Supporter ♡
Posts: 1331
Joined: 4 years ago

#19: Post by PIXIllate »

Jeff wrote:Two that are worth using, in my opinion:

LeverCraft: https://levercraftcoffee.com/products/l ... ion-tool-1

JKim Makes: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1185798417 ... t-assembly

I prefer the LeverCraft tool. I keep the JKim Makes one at work with my Robot and JX-Pro
Agree about the Levercraft. Mine came with 0.35mm needles. Use it every shot.

BaristaBob
Posts: 1866
Joined: 6 years ago

#20: Post by BaristaBob replying to PIXIllate »

Agree on the LeverCraft tool. I've been around the block and it stopped here. It just works.
Bob "hello darkness my old friend..I've come to drink you once again"