Updosing - what and why? - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
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Peppersass

Postby Peppersass » Feb 09, 2018, 9:29 pm

Hah. There are always a lot of moving parts in espresso brewing. :shock:

Hard to say for sure, but I think your theory that the beans hit the right age is probably correct. I say that because with the 20:40 dose grinding coarser would normally extract less, and hence taste more sour.

One thing that happens with aging is CO2 outgassing. CO2 can block hot water from contacting the grounds, interfering with full extraction. So when the CO2 level drops you can extract more.

Another thing that happens with aging is that the beans get more brittle, which tends to create finer particles at the same grind setting. So more gets extracted.

With lighter roasts, both these factors add up to better extraction if you let the coffee rest longer after roast. With darker roasts, you typically have to grind coarser as the coffee ages.

Not to get too picky about language, but I prefer to use the term Updose to refer to the technique I described above, which is a method for minimizing bitterness in dark roasts, and often requires increasing the brew ratio and brew time. Back in the day, updose amounts could get extreme -- 22g-25g, with brew ratios of 2:1 or higher.

That said, some people may use the term to describe anything larger than a 14g dose. In that case, you were already updosing at 18g!

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lancealot

Postby lancealot » Feb 09, 2018, 10:12 pm

Peppersass wrote:One thing that happens with aging is CO2 outgassing. CO2 can block hot water from contacting the grounds, interfering with full extraction. So when the CO2 level drops you can extract more.

Another thing that happens with aging is that the beans get more brittle, which tends to create finer particles at the same grind setting. So more gets extracted.

With lighter roasts, both these factors add up to better extraction if you let the coffee rest longer after roast. With darker roasts, you typically have to grind coarser as the coffee ages.


Interesting. I was noticing as this bean goes from 7-10 days, each day there are less large bubbles in the crema. At 7 days, 2 minutes after pouring pretty good milk for a latte, the milk had about 100 little bubbles in it. After 10-12 days this calms down a lot. I was thinking it was CO2 that still hadn't off gassed, cause the milk def. didn't have all those bubbles. The reduction of the bubbles coincides with the dissipation of the sour flavors. Makes sense and is pretty cool.

I have also wondered why some coffees require a coarser grind as the coffee ages. I didn't know why and had not made the observation that it happened with darker roasts. Giving it some thought, I think it has been with darker roasts.

Thanks a lot Peppersass, this has been very enlightening.

mathof

Postby mathof » Feb 10, 2018, 6:17 am

Peppersass wrote:FWIW, even further back in history, baristas regarded the dose as simply dictating the amount of brewed coffee to be produced. In Italy, a 7g single meant (and still means) one ounce of coffee in the cup, while a 14g double means 28g in the cup (1:2 brew ratio in both cases.) If they bother to change the grind you probably won't notice much because the dark roast won't offer up any subtle varietal flavor and the Robusta tames the bitterness.


Thank you for the informative post about what was going on in specialty coffee before I got involved with it But I did want to query the numbers above. If Italians pulled one ounce of liquid (~28g) from 7g of coffee they would be using a brew ratio of 1:4. A couple of years ago, I weighted a number of shots at various bars over a few days in Venice. I found the brew ratio varies greatly, but generally ranges from about 1:2.5 to 1:3. I didn't weigh doubles, but when I have ordered them they come in larger cups and look to be about an ounce and a half (35g).

Matt

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Peppersass

Postby Peppersass » Feb 10, 2018, 3:18 pm

Sorry, it's not one ounce of beverage by weight, it's 14g. Traditionally they measured the shot by volume, which typically reaches about 1 oz for a single due to the crema, which doesn't weigh anywhere near as much as the coffee. This is why we weigh instead of using volume.

mathof

Postby mathof » replying to Peppersass » Feb 10, 2018, 5:31 pm

I hadn't thought of that. FYI, on page 7 of this guide to espresso published by the Italian Espresso National Institute, there's a table of the recommended parameters for a cup of espresso.

http://www.espressoitaliano.org/files/F ... _hq_en.pdf

As you can see, they recommend 25ml of coffee, including crema, from 7g of grinds. Assuming the crema is ~5ml deep, that leaves 20ml of espresso, or about 20g, for a brew ratio of ~1:3.

Matt