Uneven Extractions Post-VST - Page 2

September 26th, 2017, 11:46 am

RyanJE wrote:I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the odds are great that its the Barista. I know, been there and still go there some times. I use VST all the time and they are certainly not the easiest to get good looking pours from. However, I like that they extract quickly so I can pull really good tasting 1.5 ratios still.

I just went through some black cat myself and it pulled fine. Also an e61 machine. Are you weighing your dose to the .1g and if so, how much are you putting in that 20g basket? You might be over or under dosing too much.

Also, I find the 20G harder to use than the 18g. If your dose is in check and you have a level tamp, have you tried WDT just to see if it helps?

I think that's totally possible, and is probably the most likely outcome. I'm just trying to isolate what I'm doing and get better. I figure it's worth ensuring the easy things, namely equipment, aren't getting in the way before I start altering my process.

I'm using the integral weighing of a 270W and it's always within .1-.2 of a gram from 18. I think I actually misspoke earlier, I have an 18 gram ridged VST.

I've actually found the opposite, that my VST behaves the best when I pull longer shots. I'm pulling 30 grams in about 30 seconds, but I count from when the first drip hits the glass, not from when I engage the pump. When I try and shorten the extractions, I end up with spritzers and a less well behaved extraction.

I'm also wondering whether the angled bottmless portafilter is making me tamp unevenly, even though I'm trying not to. I'm considering snagging the one actually made out of a Rocket portafilter, or at least a straight one.

#12: Post by **biketo** » September 26th, 2017, 12:09 pm

achosid wrote: I'm also wondering whether the angled bottomless portafilter is making me tamp unevenly, even though I'm trying not to. I'm considering snagging the one actually made out of a Rocket portafilter, or at least a straight one.

I place my angled bottomless on a pad set on the edge of the counter. I have a stand for spouted portafilters, but find simple works best for bottomless.

Oh, and speaking of simple, this 7 minute video on tamping by SeattleCoffeeGear (Joe, not Gail) explains the tamping process very clearly. Worth your time, if you haven't seen it already. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDrUpt6QmD0

#13: Post by **RyanJE** » September 26th, 2017, 12:30 pm

achosid wrote:I think that's totally possible, and is probably the most likely outcome. I'm just trying to isolate what I'm doing and get better. I figure it's worth ensuring the easy things, namely equipment, aren't getting in the way before I start altering my process.

I'm using the integral weighing of a 270W and it's always within .1-.2 of a gram from 18. I think I actually misspoke earlier, I have an 18 gram ridged VST.

I've actually found the opposite, that my VST behaves the best when I pull longer shots. I'm pulling 30 grams in about 30 seconds, but I count from when the first drip hits the glass, not from when I engage the pump. When I try and shorten the extractions, I end up with spritzers and a less well behaved extraction.

I'm also wondering whether the angled bottmless portafilter is making me tamp unevenly, even though I'm trying not to. I'm considering snagging the one actually made out of a Rocket portafilter, or at least a straight one.

Find the opposite of what? I was stating I think they do a good job of properly extracting ristrettos. In fact on my vibe machine I can get a full extraction in just over 20seconds.

If you are worried about crooked tamp you should be able to see the level by looking at the tamped puck. The ridge in the basket can help gauge flatness.

Or, you could always try prepping the basket outside of the PF for a while. Have you at least tried WDT? This will help understand if it's a distribution error or not.

September 26th, 2017, 1:01 pm

It seemed like you stated you were having good luck with VSTs with shorter timed extractions, but I may have misunderstood you. I had noticed that, if anything, my basket prefers longer timed extractions.

I'm planning on trying WDT, I just need to go buy a cup of yogurt since I gave away my nice OE distribution funnel when I sold my Rocky.

September 26th, 2017, 1:08 pm

Oh OK. Thats not what I meant. I meant shorter ratios like 1.5.

That said, from a taste and extraction standpoint, I actually think VST rely less on time and more on grind size as opposed to a Faema style basket for example.

I think this is because you can grind very fine and still flow quickly with a VST. Where as something like a Faema takes a coarser grind and thus you would imagine, longer brew times or ratios.

September 26th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Just me being bad at terminology! Makes sense.

Part of me is really hoping the WDT doesn't fix my issues, because I really don't want to go back to doing it every shot...

#17: Post by **RyanJE** » September 26th, 2017, 3:06 pm

True but it could go away with time as your burrs settle. At least for now it would let you know something is wrong with distribution.

#18: Post by **Renegade** » September 29th, 2017, 6:57 pm

VST 20g basket is hard to work with. Any tiny error will appear huge in the cup.

I've learned grind and distribution must be perfect with those. Maybe your burrs break-in is for something, or distribution.

I would try working with smaller VST baskets (15 or 18g) to know if it is a huge error. If your shots extraction are better with those, suspect distribution and tamping. If it is still channeling, suspect the grinder.

October 1st, 2017, 9:50 pm

The worst has happened: it was distribution. I was really hoping that the 270W was a WDT-less grinder for me, as it appears to be for many. Not the case.

I dosed into the cup that came with the Sette, shook it while I waited for the flush to finish, and worked it with a toothpick once it was in the basket. I meant to take a picture, but I was too busy marveling at the difference.

So today's PSA: the Sette doesn't appear to be a perfect distributor to the point that no WDT is required, at least for me.

On a related note: what's everyone's favorite permanent non-yogurt based distribution funnel? I had the OE one before, but didn't like how the funnel went inside the basket, it had me worried about channeling on the exterior of the puck. The Decent Espresso one looks nice, but a bit pricey.

October 1st, 2017, 9:53 pm

It's not so bad if you now know! Maybe your burrs just need more break in...

Aside from a thin yogurt cup, I use the tidaka funnels. Not cheap tho..