To Control Flow or Not? - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
Nunas
Supporter ♡

#11: Post by Nunas »

baldheadracing wrote:Here's Coffee Addicts in Calgary for eventual comparison: - $260CAD shipped
https://coffeeaddicts.ca/products/coffe ... 2525253822
That's where I got it. Nice people to deal with. Decent price and quick service.

CamBam_HB

#12: Post by CamBam_HB »

I would recommend spending some time with your new machine before you decide you need flow control. There are various threads with members experience with adding the flow control kit on their E61 machine - Here is one of themECM flow control installation.

It's not clear why the ECM kit is not readily available. From what i can piece together, WLL may have exclusivity on it in the US, while other vendors seem to state it not necessary nor of value. It also seems to have gone through at least 2 iterations, so maybe they are continuing to refine it before offering it more broadly to the public.

In due time, if flow profiling really is of interest, there are other kits (by the other E61 OEM's) that you could pickup to modify.

1rider (original poster)

#13: Post by 1rider (original poster) »

So, I wound up ordering the ECM kit from Bella Barista. It cost a little more than from WLL, but they would not sell it to me because I didn't buy my machine there and their stock is low. I understand that.

Based on recommendations here and from others I have talked with I plan on waiting to install the kit and allow my wife and I to learn the new machine in it s stock form. I have had small commercial heat exchanger machines before and levers as mentioned, but this will be my first E61 experience.

Thanks to all for chiming in, it really helps make an informed decision.
Cheers,
Patrick

Pressino

#14: Post by Pressino »

SandraF wrote:If you plan on adding flow control to your own brand new machine, I've been told it will void the warranty.
I'm guessing you spoke to an ECM vendor that is not WLL, as so far as I know WLL is the only US vendor that sells these ECM FCD's to go with their machines.

I can't imagine why installing an e61 FCD would void a machine warranty,since it just involves replacing the mushroom with one of different design (i.e.instead of a fixed orifice gigleur it has one with a needle valve) in the upper chamber and sometimes a new stiffer pre-infusion spring for the lower chamber. I suppose you could damage some pump circuit components by running the machine for a long time against a closed needle valve, but that would be just like running against a blind portafilter...

And I don't believe it's a warranty violation, when needed, to remove the mushroom and lower infusion chamber to inspect for scale buildup, replace seals, etc. as part of routine maintenance. These components are not "factory sealed" so how would anyone know that users installed and tried using an e-61 FCD, unless they left it on the machine when it went back for a warranty repair?? If it isn't a warranty violation to install an e61 grouphead "nose" thermometer, I don't see why installing a FCD would be. In short andIMHO, those retailers who say it: 1) have heard something from the manufacturer about e61 FCD's voiding machine warranty--in which case I'd like to see some statement to that effect from ECM; 2) are honestly mistaken; or, 3) are purposely misrepresenting the facts for some reason that I won't bother to figure out. :(

Auctor
Supporter ♡

#15: Post by Auctor »

Pressino wrote:I'm guessing you spoke to an ECM vendor that is not WLL, as so far as I know WLL is the only US vendor that sells these ECM FCD's to go with their machines.
1st Line sells ECM w/ Flow (unless they ran out of parts), and now sells Profitec as well.

Pressino

#16: Post by Pressino »

Thanks for the info..I didn't know that 1st Line sold ECM/Pro machines with FCD...and I thought the only FCD they sold was not an ECM make. They do say that they will not be "responsible for" [a list of] specific damages, like scratches and broken seals caused by "any damage before, during, or after installation." So it doesn't seem as if they have the same relationship with ECM/Profitec that WLL does. Nonetheless I'm glad to hear that other ECM/Profitec retailers are getting on board! :)

And my points about the FCD warranty voiding statements still seem valid.

Auctor
Supporter ♡

#17: Post by Auctor »

I purchased my Sync w/ Flow over a year ago from 1st line, so they've "been on board" for quite a while. Jim personally installed mine while I sipped some espresso - good showman. :P

Pressino

#18: Post by Pressino »

Great...so I guess they don't have a warranty problem with users who install an aftermarket--or at least an ECM made-- FCD on ECM/Pro machines that they sell. That is great news! I note that their aftermarket FCD is listed at $199, which is quite a bit less than the ECM's list price. Thanks again for the update. :)