Temperature of brewed coffee changes in 5 seconds

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
bgm1911
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#1: Post by bgm1911 »

As I vary different parameters with my new E61, I have a question about the temperature of coffee in the cup.

I've been running a dual spout PF with two cups (both cups are at room temperature), and will pull one cup out at say 25 secs, and then stop the brew process on the second cup at 30 secs. The temperature difference between the two cups is anywhere from 5 -10 degrees higher in the second cup.

While I don't notice a (significant) difference in taste, should I be seeing this temp difference?

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cannonfodder
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#2: Post by cannonfodder »

Pre heat your cups. That is why there is a big cup warmer on top of the machine.
Dave Stephens

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HB
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#3: Post by HB »

If I recall correctly, for unheated cups, the temperature for espresso I've measured was around 165°F. The temperature initially falls very quickly. The double-walled glass demitasses from Bodum really hold heat well, if you're into really hot espresso.
Dan Kehn

RyanJE
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#4: Post by RyanJE replying to HB »

I have double walled glass cups and actually find that they are too hot. I cant drink my espresso fast enough and the crema thins out by the time its cool enough to drink.
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....

Marcelnl
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#5: Post by Marcelnl »

bgm1911 wrote:As I vary different parameters with my new E61, I have a question about the temperature of coffee in the cup.

I've been running a dual spout PF with two cups (both cups are at room temperature), and will pull one cup out at say 25 secs, and then stop the brew process on the second cup at 30 secs. The temperature difference between the two cups is anywhere from 5 -10 degrees higher in the second cup.

While I don't notice a (significant) difference in taste, should I be seeing this temp difference?
Can it be that the faster flow at the end of the extraction accounts for less temperature drop during extraction? You could try to measure the second cup 5seconds later to see what the difference is...if the temp is the same it would mean the coffee cools at that rate if different I'd expect the difference in flow rate or decrease in temp loss during extraction to account for the temp difference.
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bgm1911 (original poster)
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#6: Post by bgm1911 (original poster) »

I guess my OP could have been worded better.

Is the temperature difference in just 5 secs (from 25 secs to 30 secs) indicating a temperature problem with my E61, that it's upwards of 10 degrees for a slightly longer shot?

I have not seen it mentioned in all my reading, what the proper temperature in a cup should be to indicate that the E61 is brewing at the proper temperature. What if it isn't? What parameter do I change?

I'm only asking because I'm (over) analyzing every aspect of my process, because my coffee is not getting better.

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JmanEspresso
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#7: Post by JmanEspresso »

The temp difference you're seeing in the cup that was there for 30 seconds instead of 25, is probably because, like said above, its the end of the shot, water is flowing more freely through the coffee cake, ie, its more watered down espresso, which likely putting a little more heat into the cup because the water is losing less heat flowing through the more extracted puck of coffee.


You want to preheat your cups for espresso. Everyone has their preference, but the general consensus is, heat your cups. Now, some people like em HOT, whereas others, like em warm. I dont like them HOT. Warm is good for me. I notice a VERY big difference in the quality of the espresso, if I pull into a not warmed up cup. The cup sucks the heat out of the espresso and the shot is already ruined before its done. Gotta have the cups warm. And yea, those double wall bodum cups keep the espresso hot hot hot. I cant enjoy the espresso using those cups. Look really sharp though.


More to the point- To answer your question, is the temp difference in 5 seconds between the two cups indicating a temperature problem with your machine? Almost certainly not.

You said you are asking because you're over analyzing the whole process looking for better results. I think this particular aspect, you're looking too far into.

You've got a dual boiler with a PID for setting boiler temp. When the machine left the dealer of choice, it was calibrated with a Scace Device to be operating correctly with regards to temperature. Meaning, the offset was programmed into the PID, so when you set the PID to "201", you get "201" at the brew group. The very awesome thing about this, is that, even IF the offset is slightly incorrect, and is causing you to get, for example, "202" when you set it to "201".. you will ALWAYS get that result. The general advice given with regards to accuracy of a PID dual boiler, is, unless you can PERSONALLY use a Scace device, with the machine in the state/town/house/room its going to be kept in, and can set the machine to be EXACT.. than the best way to look at the PID setting for brew boiler temp, is with a grain of salt. Maybe when you set it to 201, you DO always get 201. But, even if setting it to 201 gets you 200, or 202, its fine, because unless you change the PID parameters or the Offset settings, its ALWAYS going to give you what it gives you. So you see, you still have ability to adjust the brew boiler up and down, in one degree increments, even if you maybe dont always trust that the digital readout, is the exact brew temp. Does that make sense?

What is it that you want to see improved about your espresso, that you're not getting? Perhaps we can help steer you in the right direction...

RyanJE
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#8: Post by RyanJE replying to JmanEspresso »

Just to play devils advocate here, my Alexia Quick Mill EVO is a PID machine that "was calibrated with a scace". Well, the display offset turns out to be about 10-12F off on the low side. SO, if I trusted that and set my PID to 200 I wouldn't even be hitting the needed min brew temps.

So I would just be leary of saying "trust your PID machine"..

All that said, I don't even see where OP stated he has a PID dual boiler?
I drink two shots before I drink two shots, then I drink two more....