Hi coffee connoisseurs of the world,

I have just gotten my amateur-ish Breville Baristo Pro a little more than a week ago and I'm getting stuck dialing in my coffee, getting the right yield and extraction.

After speaking to the roasters who roast the (medium roast) beans I have, I had adjusted the conical burr one step finer (12th Sep). The beans are freshly roasted locally, maybe a bit too fresh. This new bag was roasted on Wednesday, it's Sunday morning here.



Adjusting the conical burr size changed the yield tremendously, a little too much as i was looking for a 1:2.2 ratio. Though the extraction time is now in the recommended range for the first time. So I thought the grind might now be too fine and I adjust the grind size coarser by one step which resulted in even lesser yield. I know I should be more consistent with the dose and I will be going for 20gr here on.

I could really use some advice on how to get to the sweet spot with a higher yield at 20gr dose.

Thank you!

Hi Pei,

Looking at your most recent log of 20g in - 32g out in 28 sec, I would recommend pulling the shot for a little longer. Much of the sweetness of espresso comes from the late stages of extraction so you might be cutting it off before it reaches that point. I wouldn't worry so much about nailing the recommended time range, it's really more of a starting point guide. For example, most of the beans I use I do around a 1:2 ratio, 20g in, in about 38-40 sec. That includes a 7 second pre-infusion.

I would adjust grind size and time a little more and if you still aren't getting the results, I would try a different bean. It is quite possible that you're just tasting that beans characteristics. You could try a darker roast than you have currently also, that may fix some of your issues.

Good luck and welcome to the forums!

*Edit* One more thing, since your machines grinder doesn't have steps in between each number, you can always fine tune the grind by doing half and half. It's something I used to do with my old Breville. What I mean by that is you can grind 10g at a grind setting of say 6, then grind the other 10g at 5 giving you an average of 5.5 grind. Something to try out if you're finding the difference between grind settings to be too big of a jump. I started doing this after I noticed one setting being too course then the next grind finer choking the machine.

elpuente wrote:Hi coffee connoisseurs of the world,

I have just gotten my amateur-ish Breville Baristo Pro a little more than a week ago and I'm getting stuck dialing in my coffee, getting the right yield and extraction.

After speaking to the roasters who roast the (medium roast) beans I have, I had adjusted the conical burr one step finer (12th Sep). The beans are freshly roasted locally, maybe a bit too fresh. This new bag was roasted on Wednesday, it's Sunday morning here.

image

Adjusting the conical burr size changed the yield tremendously, a little too much as i was looking for a 1:2.2 ratio. Though the extraction time is now in the recommended range for the first time. So I thought the grind might now be too fine and I adjust the grind size coarser by one step which resulted in even lesser yield. I know I should be more consistent with the dose and I will be going for 20gr here on.

I could really use some advice on how to get to the sweet spot with a higher yield at 20gr dose.

Thank you!

Welcome to HB. that log is a great way to figure out what's happening so good start on the log. from your log you have had a lot of sour shots, it seems you hit one that tasted good. If you're willing it might be a good idea to dial in immediately after you do a shot so if the shot is sour, make some changes and pull it again and repeat until you get the shot right. this way the shots create a feedback loop that allows you to immediately see the impact of the changes. the log helps but as the coffee ages it's characteristic will change with it so your day to day shots are going to vary. This is broadly useful to see how coffee changes but it may not be useful to dial in tomorrow's shot based on your sour shot today. When you get the shot right you then can start tracking the changes between what works rather than what doesn't work plus it ramps up your learning curve but it also may waste a lot of coffee so it's up to you.

if you shots are sour this can mean it's under extracted so your goal would be to try and extract more out it to get the shots sweeter. a under-extracted shot is sour where an over extract shot is astringent so you want to hit that middle zone where the shot works the best. Roughly this is accomplished with 2:1 ratio and in a window of 25-30 seconds.

according to your log your first shots had a very large yeild in a short time and this is pretty common when your getting the hang of it and would indicate it's too coarse of grind. so it looks like you went finer and by doing that went from from pulling fast 50ml to 35ml in that 25-30s range. and that's great feedback what's interesting from my perspective is this was accomplish with one step of the grinder from 6 to 5. So it leaves you with not a lot of room to dial in the grind. It seems you have an option of too coarse (step 6), too fine (step 4?) and the something in the middle at step 5 but you can't get a 4.8, 4.9, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 etc... to really hone in the right grind which will be more challenging to get dial in the shot.

there are some other tricks to do to increase extraction. if you're able you can try and change the brew temp (not sure if you machine can do it) higher temps extract better but there is a limit, too high and you get this harsh bitterness so if you can adjust the temp I would go up 1 or 2 degrees at that's it.

The more water you push through the more the coffee stuff will come out so those shots that are still just a bit sour try and perhaps run them just a bit longer and that few seconds may be enough to sweeten the shot but of course there is a limit with this too as an extra 10 seconds may just too big of yeild.

you can play with your dose especially if your brew head is getting all messy with grinds you may want to consider a lower dose then which creates more headspace between the coffee and the brew head, if that dose is too sour then go finer with that low dose and you might hit a sweet spot.

Other stuff: There is also something called a nutating tamp which is putting the tamp on an angle and spinning it then levelling it off again. this compresses the puck more and slows your shots and may allow you to get something close to an in-between the grinding steps. You can also put an aeropress filter at the bottom of your PF basket. this will prevent fines from clogging up the basket which will effect the flow. you can also put a filter on the top after you tamp as well which will help protect the puck from becoming too eroded from the spray of the brew head. This will also help your problem of getting grinds stuck to the brew head as well. The filters will allow the puck to be more evenly extracted and the flow may actually speed up but this allows you to go finer and perhaps dose lower.

Your log book is great and much better in seeing patterns than is foggy memory early in the morning.

I'd suggest sticking with 18.0 g to start as 20 g may be too much for the basket.

I'd also keep your technique simple to start. Each step you add add adds complexity and variability.

I definitely would not try using a nutating tamp. It can break up puck integrity and is nearly impossible to become repeatable enough with to be useful even for a professional. One of the most vocal proponents of it has publicly apologized for his support of it https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/nutation-an-apology/ back in 2017.

Jeff wrote:One of the most vocal proponents of it has publicly apologized for his support of it https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/nutation-an-apology/ back in 2017.

that blog is a little funny as Perger says sorry for promoting it but he still did the right thing. Nutating tamps are bandaid approaches and not really solutions or good practices so although I brought it up I do agree generally there are better things to do. however, if your grinder has too big of steps and you can't get the right grind I think a nutating tamp may help and the worse it can do it jam a shot. But I do agree with you... keep it simple (my post was probably lost that spirit)