Some questions about the 7-21 days after roasting coffee rule of thumb... - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
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mrgnomer
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#11: Post by mrgnomer »

I keep it in an open containter so the CO2 can degass when I roast my own. The container is a Mason jar with a lid I punched holes in. I turn it upside down onto a stand that lifts it up s bit. My thought is that since CO2 is heavier than air a new roast should degass better from an open bottom rather than a top. After 4 days I flip the jar upright and seal it with a solid lid.

If the roast were sealed right away pressure would build up in the jar and you'd get a big rush of gas when you opened it after a couple days. After 4 days of degassing the fresh roast still pops a little when you seal it then open it after a couple days but not a lot.

After 4 days of degassing most roasts are usually still too fresh to extract. A lot of crema and raw taste. 7 days smooth things out. After 2 weeks most are still good but are getting flat. Less crema and distinct aromas.

When I buy from a roaster I try to get as close to fresh as possible, no more than 4 or 5 days. I sometimes try them out right away and usually the third wave light roasts are raw but after a few days smooth out.
Kirk
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mrgnomer
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#12: Post by mrgnomer »

That's interesting about the classic Italian roast blends. The dark ones with robusta in the mix do extract crema almost indefinitely and if I'm careful not to over extract them are consistently good. Kimbo, Lavazza and dark roast Starbucks are my go to for store bought reasonably priced classics.

I read where the degassing time store shelf coffees get makes them stale even before they're bagged. They do that, apparently, so the bags don't pop while in storage/transit. Add that time, the time it takes for them to be stocked and the time they're on the shelf before they're bought and you've got one old bag of beans. I'm surprised they extract well. Must be the blending, char roasting and robusta.
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yakster
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#13: Post by yakster »

mrgnomer wrote:I keep it in an open containter so the CO2 can degass when I roast my own. The container is a Mason jar with a lid I punched holes in...

If the roast were sealed right away pressure would build up in the jar and you'd get a big rush of gas when you opened it after a couple days.
I used to use the plastic lids without gaskets on my jars with my home-roast, they're not airtight so the CO2 would degass but I felt that it limited the air exchange. Now I just use the two part metal lids. I've been looking for nice plastic lids now that seal that I can wash and reuse.

I'm finding that when your coffee peaks seems to depend a lot on your roast, maybe not just the lightness of the roast. Many of my roasts seem to improve after a week. Roasting 600 gram batches in my Bullet means that I usually have coffee for at least two weeks or longer.
-Chris

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GDM528
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#14: Post by GDM528 »

jpender wrote:Could you explain that in a little more detail, what did you do exactly?
For example, Klatch's 2lb bags just fit inside an 8" vacuum seal bag. So I slip the original Klatch bag inside the seal bag and pull a vacuum until the surface of the bag gets bumpy. I cut a tiny slit (2-3mm) in the top of the Klatch bag to allow the air to be pulled out faster. Result is nicely rectilinear and stacks efficiently in my freezer with all the vendor information intact.



jpender wrote:I don't think that's how it works. If there's a small leak in the bag oxygen will get inside no matter how much CO2 is present.
I confess you got me on that one. I presumed that just-roasted beans outgas with ever-so-slightly higher pressure than room air - but I didn't check the actual research on it. If beans outgas by simple diffusion, then yeah, the oxygen and CO2 will freely mix. However, CO2 is only being produced on one side of the vent, so I'd still expect the concentration of the CO2 inside the bag to be somewhat higher than the air surrounding the bag because the cross-sectional area of the vent is such a small fraction of the overall surface of the bag.

Key takeaway for me, is most 'sealed' bags aren't. So, if I really want to control the environment for the beans, I need to add my own tech.

iyayy
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#15: Post by iyayy »

my experience.
1. within 1~3 days of roast.
-lots of bloom in pourover. good for insta.
-inconsistent first drip despite even bottom basket saturation time.
-weak taste in both, pourover better taste than espresso.

2. kept sealed and rested at least 8days.
-still blooms with pourover, not as much as above.
-slower basket saturation, consistent first drip
-solid taste in espresso, more nuanced flavor in pourover.
-pourover is bit better after 14days.

3. opened during 1~3 days, but kept airtight + removed as much air (ziplock).
- similar result to 2.

4. opened during 1~3 days, kept in airtight container but air not removed, or kept in original bag only.
- grind settings gradually shifts each few days.
- extremely slight but somewhat noticeable loss of flavor balance, when compared to 2.

5. kept in steel cans (almost?) airtight.
- okay within 1~3 days.
- dont bother if keeping more than a week. beans turns less crunchy (stale?) very quickly afterwards.
- noticeable loss of flavor intensity after a week.

6. fridge
- stopped doing. good for long term sealed pack, but i mostly buy 100g/200g pack. bit more expensive but easier to manage freshness.
- different grind settings required unless thawed and rested long enough.
- didnt do much comparison taste test to have definite conclusion.

7. kept sealed for more than 1.5month (havnt done more actually).
- identical to 3, maybe to 2. definitely better than 1.

i do 2 and 3. even some kept for months (because hard to source/seasonal beans). 6 and 7 if shipping costs a lot, but i'll make sure to split pack it.
there's also grind and rest, i find it to work. search hb for the thread.

as always these are my experience.
do what u believe, because thats ur reality, and also ymmv.

iyayy
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#16: Post by iyayy »

GDM528 wrote: Key takeaway for me, is most 'sealed' bags aren't. So, if I really want to control the environment for the beans, I need to add my own tech.
hey.. seems we have similar ideas here as well.

jpender
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#17: Post by jpender »

GDM528 wrote:For example, Klatch's 2lb bags just fit inside an 8" vacuum seal bag. So I slip the original Klatch bag inside the seal bag and pull a vacuum until the surface of the bag gets bumpy. I cut a tiny slit (2-3mm) in the top of the Klatch bag to allow the air to be pulled out faster. Result is nicely rectilinear and stacks efficiently in my freezer with all the vendor information intact.
I wasn't asking how you vac seal the bag. I was wondering how you determined that 80% of the bags you had were leaking.


GDM528 wrote: My recent experience with four different vendors of nine "sealed" bags: only 20% of the bags were actually sealed. Either because of leaky valves or leaky seams. Taping over the valve recovered only two of the bags - but one of those bags returned to room pressure the next day.

GDM528
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#18: Post by GDM528 »

jpender wrote:I wasn't asking how you vac seal the bag. I was wondering how you determined that 80% of the bags you had were leaking.
Oops, sorry. I originally documented the testing process here: Klatch Greens Sale - 12 days of...
I then tried the same test on some additional bags of roasted coffee, and got essentially the same statistics. That's still a really small sample of all the (millions of?) similar bags out there.

I suspect the bag's first order of business is to not burst open during transit, and I may have falsely projected an assumption the vents were one-way, in the absence of the supplier specifically claiming it.

Linking back to the OP's original questions, I suggest a healthy skepticism about "sealed" bags and tossing them as-is into the freezer. No malice on the part of the roaster, but the environment inside a newly purchased bag may not be all that pristine.

NewCoffeeGuy1 (original poster)
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#19: Post by NewCoffeeGuy1 (original poster) »

Love this discussion and all the replies.

Given my throughput of about a 12oz bag/week, it seems that as long as I'm +/- 1 week 'behind' (bag arrives, sits for a week before opening, which means opening roughly 8-9 days after roasting) I am probably experiencing the peak of the beans I receive. That's assuming the bag is properly sealed of course, which I understand may not be the case.