Shots pull too quickly - fresh coffee, good equipment... help? - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
K7

#11: Post by K7 »

Impossibledingo wrote: What am I doing wrong? I can't go any finer on the Atom Pro. I know it is an all purpose grinder, and most of the settings are good for v60s and French press, etc, but it is endorsed for espresso by many, including the folks at Seattle Coffee Gear.
One idea I've had is that the Atom Pro (similar to EK43) is that it creates a unimodal grind with limited fines, hence the fast flow rate. Still seems nuts tho...
Yeah, all signs point to grinds not being fine enough or lacking fines component. So I look up Eureka's web site and it says Atom Pro is for drip and French press. I think that's your answer. The only all-purpose Atom is Atom 60. The rest of their Atoms are for espresso. Not sure why SCG markets the Atom Pro as an espresso grinder.
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erik82

#12: Post by erik82 »

Good point. Didn't see it was the dedicated model for filter. This just means it's not suited for espresso and explains why it can't go fine enough. If they sold it to you with the claim it can do espresso I'd just sent it back.

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Nate42

#13: Post by Nate42 »

Making espresso with unimodal grinders better suited for brew is trendy these days, but there's several things to keep in mind about that
  • Highly precise alignment is required to get the grind fine enough. Even the best grinders of this type people struggle to get fine enough on some coffees and often are grinding with the burrs on the verge of touching.
  • Pressure profiling or at least reduced pressure is often used to keep the flow under control
  • The resulting beverage isn't really traditional espresso. It's sometimes referred to as EKspresso. It will have thinner body, minimal crema, and is usually pulled at a higher ratio, 1:3 or more.
So what I'm getting at is, your equipment can't necessarily do it, and even if it could you might not like it. I suggest if your grinder can easily be recalibrated to grind finer, and you like the results, great. If not, return it for something geared more toward traditional espresso.

Auctor
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#14: Post by Auctor »

I'm not so sure that the Atom Pro can't handle espresso. Here's WLL's description:

https://www.wholelattelove.com/products ... atte-black

Same w/ Seattle Coffee Gear

https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/eurek ... so-grinder

Majesty Coffee

https://majestycoffee.com/products/eure ... al-grinder

I think Eureka recently redid parts of their site, and I wonder if they simply left off the espresso icon. Unless every vendor got it wrong, I'd guess there's something going on with your grinder specifically. Have you reached out to your vendor?

Edit - and having spent more time than I had planned down this rabbit hole, the user manual also references espresso.

K7

#15: Post by K7 »

Indeed, according to the Wayback Machine, it looks like Eureka did update the product page not very long ago to remove Turkish, espresso, and moka from the grind types for the Atom Pro. Not sure if that was to fix the listing error or to reflect a change in burrs...

I do see one user review at WLL saying the grinder worked ok for espresso. The OP here got 12 sec pulls with 14 grams of coffee, so I suppose this problem may go unnoticed by users who dose triple (>18g).

erik82

#16: Post by erik82 »

Dosing more doesn't tell you a lot. A good triple baskets requires a somewhat similar grind compared to a good double basket. They tend te compensate for the larger dose to keep the grind size roughly the same. It's a small difference but not a 12 to 27s difference.

With unimodal burrs you do need to be on the very fine end with grinding for espresso. It's much harder to get right then a traditional grind distribution and you do indeed need a super aligned grinder to make it work for those fine grind applications.

And you do not have to pull 1:3 EKspresso as these type of burrs are also very suitable for normal 1:2 espresso ratios. It's more the case that you have the ability to do a 1:3 shot where that would work out badly with traditonal espresso burrs using light roasts. That's also a reason why I like the 80mm burrs better as they're more versatile (those 75mm from Eureka are comparable in cutting surface to 80mm burrs). I most of the time pull around 1:2 with Nordic roasts and 80mm SSP HU burrs as I like it much more then those 1:3 EKspresso shots and it works perfect with plenty of body and crema.

My best tip would be to set your OPV to 7bar as that should work much better (even with normal espresso grinders). Especially really high pressure can cause all kinds of problems with unmodal grinds for espresso.

BaristaBro

#17: Post by BaristaBro »

I was wondering if you ever fixed your problem. I seem to have similar problems with fresh beans and a grinder (Rancilio Rocky, not saying its of comparable qualitiets...) that should be able to do espresso based on many a review. Even on the finest setting (0) and triple dose (tried 18-21 grams), my shots take 17~18 seconds max. Would love to hear if and if so how you solved your issues.

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erik82

#18: Post by erik82 »

Problem is your grinder. The Rocky isn't a very good grinder for espresso. Did you lower the OPV in the Silvia to say 7-8 bar? That might be a large improvement as 12bar and a marginal grinder is asking for problems.

Can you go finer then 0 (those numbers will tell you nothing) to the point where the burrs start touching. If that's not the case then you need to adjust the grinder range so it can do that.

Just do a search on your grinder here on HB and you'll find tons op posts of people modifying it and all the problems it has when it isn't modified. It can do espresso a bit but will never be good at it.

BaristaBro

#19: Post by BaristaBro »

Hey Erik82, thanks for your reply.

I've managed to find the zero point (it's actually nicely calibrated at the "0" mark). Beyond that I can hear the burrs starting to touch each other.

I did read the comments on the Rocky and concluded that even with those adjustments it's not great. However, the negative reviews aren't consistent and I haven't yet ruled out the possibility I'm bad at pulling shots, so was trying to rule that out first (really hoping it doesn't require me to buy a better grinder).

Seems that I might have to turn to it anyway. I'll do some digging here to find a more suitable grinder.