Shot ratios - Seeking clarification
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: 8 years ago
Hi everyone, this is my first post here!
I've just purchased myself a Sage Dual Boiler espresso machine with a Sage Smart Grinder and have also invested in some 0.1g scales and some freshly roasted beans (23rd March).
The more I read, the more I'm getting confused so hopefully some of you guys can point me in the right direction and clear up some confusion.
I'm seeing that for a double espresso, I should be using 16g of ground coffee and pulling a 32g shot in around 25-30 seconds.
I'm confused because 16g of coffee doesn't seem to fill my portafilter enough and my puck ends up soupy at the end.
Supplied with my machine was a little device by sage called a razor which is supposed to give you the perfect level of coffee in your portafilter after tamping. When I tamp 16g coffee, it falls way below the level that the razor is suggesting.
So should I ignore the 16g and just fill my PF to the desired height and try and extract a shot doubling the weight of coffee that it takes to fill my PF according to the razor?
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I've just purchased myself a Sage Dual Boiler espresso machine with a Sage Smart Grinder and have also invested in some 0.1g scales and some freshly roasted beans (23rd March).
The more I read, the more I'm getting confused so hopefully some of you guys can point me in the right direction and clear up some confusion.
I'm seeing that for a double espresso, I should be using 16g of ground coffee and pulling a 32g shot in around 25-30 seconds.
I'm confused because 16g of coffee doesn't seem to fill my portafilter enough and my puck ends up soupy at the end.
Supplied with my machine was a little device by sage called a razor which is supposed to give you the perfect level of coffee in your portafilter after tamping. When I tamp 16g coffee, it falls way below the level that the razor is suggesting.
So should I ignore the 16g and just fill my PF to the desired height and try and extract a shot doubling the weight of coffee that it takes to fill my PF according to the razor?
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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- Posts: 318
- Joined: 11 years ago
Dual boiler double easily accommodates 18 - 19 gram dose, with good clearance from the shower screen. So give that a go
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: 8 years ago
I was hoping it would be as simple as this
So I'm assuming that I should aim to pull double my coffee weight in 25-30 seconds, am I right?
Thank you
So I'm assuming that I should aim to pull double my coffee weight in 25-30 seconds, am I right?
Thank you
- RapidCoffee
- Team HB
- Posts: 5013
- Joined: 18 years ago
Sage Double Boiler = Breville Double Boiler, correct?
The razor tool helps prevent massive overdosing. Other than that, well... toss it, and use your scale to weigh your dose. Do not feel compelled to fill the basket to the brim with grinds, and do not be overly concerned with spent puck dryness. I found an 18g dose works well with the BDB.
Brew ratios are described here. For a 50% brew ratio, the weight of your espresso shot is indeed twice the coffee dose. I generally aim for a slightly higher brew ratio of 2:3 (67%), but that's personal preference.
The razor tool helps prevent massive overdosing. Other than that, well... toss it, and use your scale to weigh your dose. Do not feel compelled to fill the basket to the brim with grinds, and do not be overly concerned with spent puck dryness. I found an 18g dose works well with the BDB.
Brew ratios are described here. For a 50% brew ratio, the weight of your espresso shot is indeed twice the coffee dose. I generally aim for a slightly higher brew ratio of 2:3 (67%), but that's personal preference.
John
- galumay
- Posts: 341
- Joined: 15 years ago
You really need to experiment with the ratio and the grind to find where the flavour profile you prefer resides.
Personally I don't like the flavour that comes from what I would describe as 'overdosing', so my sweet spot on my commercial lever is around 15g.
Try a range of doses aiming for a similar extraction ratio - 15g/30g, 18g/36g etc and a similar length of pour - around 25-30secs. It takes a bit of practice to work out how much finer to grind as you reduce dose weight (or vice versa), but eventually you should find the sweet spot for the style of coffee you prefer.
You can then add other variables like changing the brew ratio or even the extraction temperature and see what nuances in flavour that reveals!
Personally I don't like the flavour that comes from what I would describe as 'overdosing', so my sweet spot on my commercial lever is around 15g.
Try a range of doses aiming for a similar extraction ratio - 15g/30g, 18g/36g etc and a similar length of pour - around 25-30secs. It takes a bit of practice to work out how much finer to grind as you reduce dose weight (or vice versa), but eventually you should find the sweet spot for the style of coffee you prefer.
You can then add other variables like changing the brew ratio or even the extraction temperature and see what nuances in flavour that reveals!
LMWDP #322 i started with nothing.........i still have most of it.
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- Posts: 381
- Joined: 8 years ago
Your stock basket sounds like it might be a triple. 16 grams is smack dab in the middle of double basket range. Under dosing a basket often leads to soupy pucks, and it sounds like you're trying to put a double shot in a triple from what you're describing. I would check to see what size basket you have, and if it's a triple, either dose for a triple shot or (more preferably) get a double basket and dose for a double (i.e. the 16 grams).
Note that you'll want to explore the forums for the effects of up-dosing, down-dosing, and grinding coarser and finer, etc.
Note that you'll want to explore the forums for the effects of up-dosing, down-dosing, and grinding coarser and finer, etc.
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- Posts: 6
- Joined: 8 years ago
Thanks for your help guys.
Yeah it's a rebranded Breville double boiler for the UK market.
I'm beginning to think it's a triple basket they've included, it's taking about 23g coffee to fill to what I would think is the correct level.
Now I'm putting the right dose in (for a triple) my shots seem a lot better and my puck is nice and dry and breaks in 2 like a biscuit. The colours of the extraction are beautifully rich and I'm pulling around 48g in 30 secs just before blonding. Now time to fine tune.
Yeah it's a rebranded Breville double boiler for the UK market.
I'm beginning to think it's a triple basket they've included, it's taking about 23g coffee to fill to what I would think is the correct level.
Now I'm putting the right dose in (for a triple) my shots seem a lot better and my puck is nice and dry and breaks in 2 like a biscuit. The colours of the extraction are beautifully rich and I'm pulling around 48g in 30 secs just before blonding. Now time to fine tune.
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- Posts: 381
- Joined: 8 years ago
Great. I suspected as much. You might want to invest in a double basket at some point; you'll get a different type of pull with characteristics generally reflecting enhanced flavor complexity and body. Baskets aren't really that expensive compared to the cost of the machine and grinder, and they never "wear out" provided that you don't damage them through misuse.
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- Posts: 645
- Joined: 10 years ago
Coffee needs head room - even a triple baksets on the oracle only really holds 23g . You don't need to " fill a basket " a pic might help
Lady I heard they supplied it with a double . Did you get the white gloves service with the machcjbe . They could advise
Lady I heard they supplied it with a double . Did you get the white gloves service with the machcjbe . They could advise