cmin wrote:What grinder? You don't have one listed

Sorry about that, using an Ascaso i-1.

And now for the long detailed post....

Beans : Taylor Maid Farms, "sweetwater espresso". New bean for me, first day trying it. So far I like it, less acidic than some others I've been experimenting with. And local, yada yada....

Using a bottomless portafilter with a three cup 21g basket, loaded with ~21g of grounds.
Weight:

Pre-tamp: after using a needle to break up clumps.

Post tamp: with 30lb calibrated tamper.


Boiler: @ 101 degrees celsius.


Hit the brew switch with 2 second pre-infusion, and I see fairly uneven extraction.


Let the brew timer go into the green ~20seconds.


Result is frankly fairly good... so I may be complaining about nothing, but there's got to be room for improvement.


Outgoing weight is ~34g, so only about 1.5 to 1.


Tastes good... so there's that.

thecoffeefield wrote:Also at some point you will need a scale. It's extremely important to know your yield/output ratio so if you use 21 gm of coffee and your output is 42 gm then you know 2:1. Different coffees can have different ratios recommended by the roaster.

Yeah, finally got my cheap little scale to zero out with the tumbler on it.

Your yield ratio is 1:1.6 so that's fine. I think you can try grinding a little finer but stop at 30 seconds or so and see which shot you like better

Tried a finer grind this morning, and the results are about half the extraction... so clearly that's not it. Gonna have to go back to a more coarse grind.

Somewhere between the two grinder settings, and closer to the previous setting.

While trying to keep everything super consistent in my preparation, I still find that the ideal grind range for good espresso is pretty narrow and moves with different coffee beans, their age and the ambient conditions. The scale helps me keep on top of that once I am in the ballpark. I keep the dose within 0.1 gram to start with for consistency sake, so I am not adding another variable. Then I target a certain output weight within a given extraction time. So, if I usually expect 27 grams of output in 27 seconds with my 16 gram dose, and I see that I got 32 grams in that time (pouring faster than my target), then I tweak the grinder adjustment slightly tighter, so that next time I hopefully hit the mark. After a while, you get a feel for how much to tweak.

I suspect going finer will probably make your situation worse, which you seem to have discovered already. Grind coarser, which will lengthen the time it takes for extraction. If the coarser grind takes the shot outside the normally accepted 20 to 30 seconds, then increase the dose amount to compensate.

I agree with the others that, as a learning tool at least, you need to be able to measure the grinds going in and the coffee coming out. I like weight, but if your scale won't do it then volume is second best. Not sure what 'cheap scale' is, but be sure it is up to measuring at 0.1 increments (most cheap scales don't). If your original scale is better, what you might try is to weigh your shot into a much lighter container, even a small yogurt tub, so that your scale does not balk at the weight. Then pour it into your normal serving cup and note the level. Thereafter, strive to achieve that level in ~25 seconds (assuming a normal espresso shot, not ristretto or lungo).

Of course, once you get things into the ballpark, you should slightly change your grind/dose/time for what you like in taste.

I note that your pulling triples, but as all three basket sizes are normalised for 20 to 30 seconds, that isn't a factor.

You talked about needling the grind and tamp pressure. Neither of those are as important as grind/dose/time at the onset IMHO.

Yeah I went back to a rougher grind and switched from a bamboo sliver to a dissection needle for declumping. Seems better, though still a bit inconsistent. Hunting around for a better scale.

Kujako wrote:Having some issues with my Silvia, extraction seems a bit uneven despite my breaking up the grounds using WDT. I'm also seeing blonding earlier in the extraction resulting in a shorter extraction time. The end results are fine frankly, but they can be better. But I'm not sure what to look at. Should I try a finer grind?

Doesn't mean your grinds are evenly distributed just because you efforted WDT. If you come back to redistribution after investigating grind settings, I would suggest delving further into the application of WDT.

I have discovered tactile feedback from the grinds using a very thin stirring needle. One can feel pockets of differing densities. Once realized, stirring took on a new level. Now, I can pull the needle through the grinds until high and low density pockets are eliminated. I don't experience extraction problems due to uneven distribution to the point I may stop using the naked portafilter altogether.

Edit: This morning I tried doing WDT as the grinds fall from the grinder into the portafilter. I tried it in an effort to reduce/eliminate grinds spillage due to piling up in the middle of the basket and sometimes spilling over the basket edge.

Initial observations are positive. It not only reduced/eliminated grinds spillage, it saved time by combining two preparation steps at the same time. I still whisked the grinds with the needle afterwards but it didn't seem to be necessary.

I am using a modified 2.5 inch long hypodermic needle attached to a plastic syringe with the sharp end cut off and the tube pinched shut and sanded to blunt it and eliminate burrs that could scratch my VST filter baskets.

My doctor is an espresso enthusiast and set me up with it. I tossed the plunger in the trash and cut off the syringe's flange to shorten the handle. I still keep the needle cap in place though when it is not in use. Because it is tubular, it is stronger than a solid needle of lesser steel quality and quite thin in diameter.

Charlene wrote:Doesn't mean your grinds are evenly distributed just because you efforted WDT. If you come back to redistribution after investigating grind settings, I would suggest delving further into the application of WDT.

I have discovered tactile feedback from the grinds using a very thin stirring needle. One can feel pockets of differing densities. Once realized, stirring took on a new level. Now, I can pull the needle through the grinds until high and low density pockets are eliminated. I don't experience extraction problems due to uneven distribution to the point I may stop using the naked portafilter altogether.

Edit: This morning I tried doing WDT as the grinds fall from the grinder into the portafilter. I tried it in an effort to reduce/eliminate grinds spillage due to piling up in the middle of the basket and sometimes spilling over the basket edge.

Initial observations are positive. It not only reduced/eliminated grinds spillage, it saved time by combining two preparation steps at the same time. I still whisked the grinds with the needle afterwards but it didn't seem to be necessary.

I am using a modified 2.5 inch long hypodermic needle attached to a plastic syringe with the sharp end cut off and the tube pinched shut and sanded to blunt it and eliminate burrs that could scratch my VST filter baskets.

My doctor is an espresso enthusiast and set me up with it. I just tossed the plunger in the trash and cut off the flange to shorten the handle. I still keep the needle cap in place though when it is not in use. Because it is tubular, it is stronger than a solid needle of lesser steel quality and quite thin in diameter.

Yeah, still working on my WDT method. Built a new tool today, not sure yet how it'll work out.

Kujako wrote:Yeah, still working on my WDT method. Built a new tool today, not sure yet how it'll work out.
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Is that your wife's kitchen whisk? lol If so, you may be in trouble!