Same coffee but much different result

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
Gipp
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#1: Post by Gipp »

Still somewhat new to espresso but have gone through about (4) 5 lb bags of DF Crema Dolce & enjoy it. I portion in jars & freeze at 12 days past roast date. Use each jar within a week. Once I dialed in my recipe it has not changed at all from bag to bag with the exception of very minor grind adjustments. I can reproduce 18.5g/ 28g/ 26-27s with consistency and the flavor is consistently good as well.

The latest bag/batch I received is way different - seems like a completely different coffee. The first shot took 12 seconds & blonded almost instantly. I've adjusted my grinder (eureka specialita) from 2.85 all the way to 1.3ish in order to get the shot time to 26 seconds. This would have choked my machine with the previous batch. But now the flavor is not right so I need to adjust more than just grind. I need to dial it in as though it were a completely different coffee - which I'm able to do but just takes me a while to do so.

Is this common? Is this due to drier weather or seasonal change? Is this an off batch? The reason I stay with the same beans is so I don't need to dial it in each time, so this has me confused. Thanks for any help/advice/comments!

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chanty 77

#2: Post by chanty 77 »

The worst time (for me) with having to tighten the grind a lot and still get gushers is in the higher humidity and very damp weather--that is ususally in the peak of Summer in Wisconsin, but depending on where you are--again my issues like that are more in high humidity/heat/damp. Another bonus for that is no a/c. No a/c with high humidity/heat is a recipe for disaster in our home making espresso.
Drier weather (actually Fall through early Summer are my best times making espresso). Have you tried another bean/blend to see if it may be this roast?

Gipp (original poster)
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#3: Post by Gipp (original poster) »

chanty 77 wrote:Have you tried another bean/blend to see if it may be this roast?
It's not so much that I can't dial in this roast (I think I probably can), it's that this batch is waaay different than previous bags I've had of the same beans and roast. I've gone through 4 batches of 5 lbs each with very little variation. This batch is just not extracting as easily as the others. It was an immediate change once I ran out of the last batch and cracked open the first jar of the current batch.

Maybe is needs to rest longer this time for some reason.... it does seem like the type of under extraction you'd get if the roast is still too new...

Jeff
Team HB

#4: Post by Jeff »

A couple of things it might be other than "bad roast" pop into my head.

First is that some roasters vary the composition of their blends during the year as various coffees are or are not available. They try to keep things roughly the same for the recipe and overall flavor, but there is variation. Even different lots of greens from the same area or producer can vary, changing the behavior slightly as well.

The roaster's equipment or even environment may have changed, slightly changing the character of the roast. Sometimes a physical roaster goes down and they have to move production to a different machine.

When I was ordering 5# bags, it was the changes from the first 300 g (10+ oz) batch to the last that I watched to see if my storage approach was reasonable. I tended to consider a new 5# bag as being "different", even if the same coffee.

It might be a combination of any of those, along (overly?) fresh vs. stored.

Curious, did both ship out of Henderson, NV?

Gipp (original poster)
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#5: Post by Gipp (original poster) »

All good explanations, thanks for the input! I guess I was caught out at just how different this particular batch was.
Jeff wrote:I tended to consider a new 5# bag as being "different", even if the same coffee.
I understand what you're saying here, but my choice of DF Crema Dolce as my "go to" blend is partly because of the remarkable consistency I found from batch to batch. For a newbie this was important to me because I spend more time working on shot consistency & technique rather than dialing in new beans from scratch every month.
Jeff wrote:Curious, did both ship out of Henderson, NV?
Yes, I started ordering in July and all 5 shipments I've received have come from NV.

Jeff
Team HB

#6: Post by Jeff »

As Dragonfly calls out at least the general origins of the beans in Leam Hammer, but not in Crema Dolce, it's possible the composition changed. If you're curious, you could send them an email and ask if there was a change between your two order dates/numbers. It won't magically dial in the new batch, but might shed some light on things.

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Moka 1 Cup

#7: Post by Moka 1 Cup »

Gipp wrote:.... DF Crema Dolce as my "go to" blend is partly because of the remarkable consistency I found from batch to batch ......
Even if I still like to explore different beans, Crema Dolce is my got to coffee as well. In twelve month I have purchased thirteen 5lb bags, practically one every month. I like Italian espresso ad after having tried MANY, Italian and domestic, I think that crema dolce is a remarkable coffee. Since April I have also been using it for pour over at the office.
However my experience in terms of consistency is not the same as yours. I have almost always found differences from bag to bag, enough to think that they have to "play" with what they have available, and I can notice it even more when doing pour-over.
The bag that I have just received, for example it's simply outstanding. The best that I have had so far. Not a tiny bit of acidy. On the contrary, a couple of bags that I received the past summer were a little "undertone". Still very good but not as the ones that I had received before and the ones I receive later.

By the way, I smoke pipe tobacco and cigars. Different world but with a lot of commonalities. The best blenders are the ones that can deliver the same flavor time after time, it's not an easy task probably, but they actually do it. Sure, there are some differences from year to year and discovering them is one of interesting aspects of slow smoking, but overall it's like really smoking the same tobacco or blend. Bourbon come to my mind as well. I do not know if coffee is a different beast :D .
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Me2

#8: Post by Me2 »

I live not far from Dragonflys original location in CO and ordered Crema Dolce for years. It used to be remarkably consistent and very very good. Unfortunately since the move to NV, Crema Dolce has gone downhill as has the customer service.

I contacted Tamas on a few occasions after receiving multiple bad bags. Responses took forever, I was given a very basic excuse that beans are organic and they age (most here know that) but were qualIty tested etc... no offer to replace a bad bag or even give me a discount if I ordered again. I support roasters that stand behind their product and service their product. I fully understand that there are process problems and beans change over time, but when a loyal customer receIves product on more than one occasion that isn't up to standard and the roaster does nothing, it's time to walk.

12 days is a bit on the long side for resting. I'd recommend 8 days, then vac seal in jar or bag and freeze, though timing is somewhat dependent on how cold freezer gets. There was a study somewhere that if you can get down to iirc -30F to -50F, beans remain in good shape for quite some time. If it's your standard 0F fridge freezer you'll want to freeze them a bit earlier which is where there may be inconsistency issues, they've started to decline.

I use a food saver mason jar sealer and put 177g in a jars, seal and plop then in the freezer at -40F. Even several months out, taste fine and quite consistent. When I need to restock, pull jar from freezer, let thaw for 24 hours, dump in an airspace container and dose from it.

Nik
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#9: Post by Nik »

QUOTE:
"I contacted Tamas on a few occasions after receiving multiple bad bags. Responses took forever, I was given a very basic excuse that beans are organic and they age (most here know that) but were qualIty tested etc... no offer to replace a bad bag or even give me a discount if I ordered again. I support roasters that stand behind their product and service their product. I fully understand that there are process problems and beans change over time, but when a loyal customer receIves product on more than one occasion that isn't up to standard and the roaster does nothing, it's time to walk."


Very similar to my experience with DRAGONFLY. Took almost two weeks to receive an expensive coffee and it was clearly dead when I pulled the first shot. Their response took awhile but it was worthless. They stated the sealed bag would keep it fresh for months. Followup emails to them were not responded to. They don't care. All they want to do is sell. They don't care about their customers. Only option we have is to spread the word about their incompetence.

When I receive new coffees which are normally 3-4 days post roast I put 4 oz in a zip lock bag and then into an airtight container. I then vacuum pack the remaining 8 oz in two x 4 oz bags and put in a deep freezer. I enjoy really fresh coffee starting at about two days after roasting. I love the brightness and the tastes as it changes over the next few days.

dragonflyCoffee
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#10: Post by dragonflyCoffee »

Hello all - thank you for your valuable feedback, we greatly appreciate it as it helps us improve our services and process. If you are having issues with your coffees or orders please do not hesitate to contact us at help@dragonflycoffeeroasters.com our help team will be happy to assist. Note, that direct emails to personal accounts at Dragonfly may not be answered in a timely manner (due to spam filters) so please use the general help desk email for all customer service issues in order to ensure timely responses.

We are a small business and take great pride in our product and our service and make every effort to respond to all inquires within 48 hours. Our team is committed to delivering an excellent product and experience each time you order. Our shipping (and almost every other facet of our business) has been impacted by COVID-19 related transit delays across all carriers USPS, FedEx & UPS are all experiencing service disruptions and in some cases significant delays, which is out of our control - these delays are just as frustrating for us as they are for you - trust me!

We are happy to help with any questions or concerns and deeply value the HB.com community - thank you for the opportunity to continue to serve you all!

Tamas
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