"Real" ristretto tamping technique - Page 4

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
Hp23

Postby Hp23 » Feb 10, 2019, 8:34 pm

Hey Larry,
That top picture you mentioned of the tamped coffee is for some reason exadurating grain size it does look larger than life.
I'm going to keep dialing finer tho until I choke the lever then come back.
I wanted to ask if you could explain "dark" your preferred roast or a pic of your beans. I roast and want to try and hit it, I can tell quit a bit from a picture about the roasting process. Thx
Here's what I'm using it's a high altitude Guatemalan probably lighter than yours.
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Concentration

Postby Concentration » Feb 11, 2019, 2:59 am

Hey Hp23, I will take some pictures of the coffees I am using now. Will post the pix tomorrow for you.

(those beans look great and fresh!)

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Radio.YYZ

Postby Radio.YYZ » Feb 11, 2019, 6:00 pm

I was finally able to pull a shot and i have mixed feelings about the flavour. Either the process was not executed properly or its my beans that don't produce the best result. I ran a shot, no pre infusion, first drip was 18.9seconds and i watched for blonding and i stopped at 89sec mark. My HX machine was not able to maintain consistent temperature throughout the shot as i i dipped from 199.5 to 194.4.

the first few drops looked syrupy and looked very good but taste is not how you explained it.
Good Coffee: Technique/Knowledge > Grinder > Beans > Water > Machine

Concentration

Postby Concentration » Feb 11, 2019, 7:19 pm

Radio.YYZ wrote:I was finally able to pull a shot and i have mixed feelings about the flavour. Either the process was not executed properly or its my beans that don't produce the best result. I ran a shot, no pre infusion, first drip was 18.9seconds and i watched for blonding and i stopped at 89sec mark. My HX machine was not able to maintain consistent temperature throughout the shot as i i dipped from 199.5 to 194.4.
the first few drops looked syrupy and looked very good but taste is not how you explained it.


Hey Radio.YYZ, from trying tons of beans to get where I am at with the ristretto results I have been consistently getting,
the emphasis should be placed on the beans themselves. I am sure that there are those that might say that they can make
the ristretto I have talked about with any coffee bean.

However, I have found that the wrong bean and everything falls flat in the taste department, and mouth feel of course.
After spending 100s of dollars searching for the right bean over many many years, the two below are the ones that work.
Our favorite of the two is the Filicori Delicato without a doubt, but the Masini is a close second.
In any case, they can be treated the same as far as dose and grind and the signs for when to stop, etc. are much the same.
So give these coffees a try when you can.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075Y ... LBZG&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HR ... UTF8&psc=1


That being said, the tamping technique looks really simple, but it isn't. The tamping is by feel, so it does take practice, but the
feedback is there: how long it takes for the first thick drop to the cup (20-30 seconds is the sweet spot), how long it takes to stop
(26-40 seconds), if there are some or no signs of a ghost drops, and, last but not least, is the coffee to your taste.

I don't like bitter much at all. This method with the two bean blends above yields sweet, complex, chocolaty, rich, deep flavor
with outstanding mouth feel, thick.

The following steps I take yield consistency in the taste and feel as above: 14g double basket at a very fine grind (see my earlier
descriptions for what I mean by "fine" ). Tamped (for at least a minute) with the technique that I described to start this thread
and in later elaborations. The usual temp on my machine is 200.

Below are some pictures I promised which show the bean color for darkness, if you roast your own or have some other dark or medium
dark roasted beans you like. Lighter roasts, even MedDark ones, which have no sheen, no surface oil, just a dry looking or light bean
do not work at all. Bad bad taste, and can not go the distance for the ristretto results.

Unfortunately the beans in the pictures are NOT Filicori Delicato or Essso Masini, it is the remaining bag that I had in the freezer that
I wanted to use up, the Kicking Horse Cliff Hanger blend. It is ever so slightly more oily or should I say shiny on the surface. In
comparison the Delicato is a duller sheen and so is the Masini. But the color of the Cliff Hanger is very much like those blends.

The pictures of the beans are from the request by Hp23 as he roasts his own. The other pictures are of the grinds in the portafilter
after tamping with the technique I shared here. I had described that the surface after tamping should look quite smooth with almost
no texture if the grind is fine enough.
I took several pictures of surface in different light and same for the beans, as the light can affect what you see. No kidding. Hope this helps.

BTW you can always come over sometime and have a ristretto (or two)
when you can.

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Radio.YYZ

Postby Radio.YYZ » Feb 11, 2019, 9:37 pm

ahhh, its my beans. I will try tomorrow with some oily 2nd crack roasted beans (italian blend).
Good Coffee: Technique/Knowledge > Grinder > Beans > Water > Machine

Hp23

Postby Hp23 » Feb 12, 2019, 12:07 pm

Hey Larry,

Thanks a ton for the effort you've given to help us who are trying your method. Thanks for the pics of the beans, they help, I like the look of the darker ones. I have roasted a drum (8lbs) of full rolling second crack beans, my lighter (right before second crack) roast is probably too acidic, I'm using it today tho while I wait on the new roast to gas off.

I made a new tamper with better feel and optics, keying me when things are level, I'm trying your tamp i.e. a minute+ long, "gravity tamp" with a little touching around the clock dial of the basket, I wonder if waiting the minute or so after grind has something to do with how it pulls. I mention this only because I have left prepared basket siting around for a while, when I pull them they pull different e.g. they might flow faster for a given grind or something..

I just pulled two completely choked shots that were discarded then hit an acceptable grind and pulled two more, the second two double shots were just short of total choke, they both went just over a minute total for a approx. 30ml shot each. Syrup is how I would describe them. I did (first time) get "ghost drops" maybe I stopped earlier. The results were great, taste was really sweet and oh so rich.

I have roasted the new darker beans, will give them 4 days and start in on them for this ristretto.

You've been long suffering in providing help. thx

Concentration

Postby Concentration » Feb 12, 2019, 2:23 pm

Hp23 wrote:Hey Larry,
I wanted to thank you for the effort you've given to help us who are trying your method.


You're welcome and thanks for your thoughtful comments.


Hp23 wrote: I have roasted up a drum (8lbs) of full rolling middle of second crack beans, my lighter (right before second crack) roast is probably too acidic, but i'm using it today, while I wait on the new roast.


Let us know what each batch did for the resulting espresso pull.


Hp23 wrote: I did (first time) get "ghost drops" on the paper towel so maybe I stopped earlier than before.
The results were in a great direction taste was really good.


It's a good goal and sounds like your efforts are getting rewarded. The big payoff is naturally the quality of the ristetto pull. The full sweet taste.

Reason: Cleaned up the quotes.

Concentration

Postby Concentration » Feb 12, 2019, 2:32 pm

especially for you Hp23:


So thanks to all those who joined this thread.

It would be interesting to see or create a thread that just focuses on making the long pull ristetto where only dark or med dark roasted coffee beans are used and a very fine grind is there as well. I would love to read, in detail if possible, how others are getting the rich, syrupy, long long pull. Left to my own experience and following the serendipitous discoveries had led me to the technique covered in this thread, but I am very open to other interesting ways to get that "final result".... wonderful ristretto.

Dark or Medium Dark beans, very fine grind, long long pull (45-100 seconds), 200 temp, tamp technique, taste profile. It would be nice to
read and see what might be a hands on instruction of individual methods, as if I am there watching it being done (I can almost taste it!)

again thanks to all. Larry (in Chico, CA)

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TomC
Team HB

Postby TomC » Feb 13, 2019, 12:10 am

I took a chance on the Filicori Delicato, and received it today. I'm very impressed with the first shot I tried. It ran fast and short, but made a helluva cappuccino.

The bag stated it was roasted in November 2018, so that's not bad, and at least on par with Kimbo, if not, fresher.

From one (native) Chicoan to another, thanks :D

Concentration

Postby Concentration » Feb 13, 2019, 10:43 pm

Hey TomC,

I had tried the Kimbo and from several bags of Filicori Delicato can safely say they are much much fresher than the Kimbo. The Delicato here is destined for a ristetto cup, only way I have tried it. It has the flavors we like and is absolutely the top, best I have ever used for making ristretto.

It is a very forgiving bean as well; small variances on stop times and it is always fresh, complex, with a lot of chocolate flavor going on. The ristretto cups have outstanding mouth feel which gives the coffee that round thick feel, different from the standard fare crema feel I think. If you like the Delicato, give the Essso Masini beans a try too. The are very close second to the Delicato with a slightly drier feel, but that blend also has the sweet complex taste and similar flavor profile as the Delicato. I am getting my 3rd kilo from Amazon this Saturday and looking forward to it.

cheers Larry