Although this isn't a new discovery, it's a reminder to me to experiment with a slow ristretto. Long ago I choked my Conti Prestina and let it run for about 1 1/2 minutes. It yielded a very concentrated shot with a sweet oily nectar that was delicious.

As you might guess, I am very much into details, but the hands on kind. I too WILL do a lot to get that coffee nectar!

kolu wrote:sorry for the sarcasm though, can't really help it.

Please try harder, sarcasm rarely elevates the discussion. Thanks.

+1

Let's celebrate someone learning or sharing something that's new to them, whenever that happens.

Larry's tamping technique looks to me like it emphasizes even distribution, and I think that's on target. I think that combines with finding the grind, dose and timing that works for a particular coffee.

Hey Concentration,
I just tried to duplicate your gentle tamp, I'm new to it so it was a slight improvement in taste with my uneducated attemp, it intrigued me and I will keep trying.
My regular routine is no tamp (#2 pic up), but the shower screen hits the grounds, and in- fact tamps a little I like your idea of a light tamp, you get to control it instead of the screen
Since I suck getting the top level with my tamper I spun one up that sits on the basket rim. Once I've done the best I can with my tooth pick to evenly distribute and leave a flat top. This thing sits on the grounds with it's own weight (aluminum), then contacts the rim of the basket and spins. I would not say compaction is going on to any meaningful degree but the top is polished a little, this has to be better than the screen doing the job and maybe duplicates your light tamp?? The shot was a small step better again. You've taken me two steps in two days to better ristretto (35ml double) thanks. I'm going to keep trying your tamp.
Pictures above. The second picture up is where I've been loading, do you think this top tamp might be in the ball park to yours?

You're reminding me of yet another detail about the tamping technique that I started the thread with.

So first detail, is that after putting the ground coffee into the portafilter, I level the 14g dose into the
edges and then grab the handle and drop the portafilter several time on my work surface to vibrate
the grinds to a more level surface, 2 or 3 time. Then I put the tamper on it lightly and feel around the
portafilter edge to make sure it is level.

The second detail I forgot to say before is that with the circular light finger tamping on the tamper
I have found that tamping like that is best done for at least a minute. I have done it longer and it seems
to be even better (hit the ristretto goal better yet). So whomever is trying this technique, remember to
just tamp it for at least one minute and longer is good too. For the fun of it, tamp it for about a minute,
then leave the tamper there and do some other task for a brief time (there is always something to do)
and then come back and tamp a little longer, maybe 20 to 30 seconds and see how it all comes out in the
cup.

The timings are just a reference to start and are whatever you determine after experimentation.

Hp23, looking at the grind size in the first picture in the portafilter, that is if I am looking at it correctly,
the grind I use is much finer that what I think I see there. With the "fine grind" I am using you would not
be able to see the grinds on the surface as your picture seems to show. The surface would look without
a texture, just smooth after tamping, of course.

If I understand this correctly, and its hard without looking at video demonstration, this is not new, its a nutating tamping which has been done for years...

ds wrote:If I understand this correctly, and its hard without looking at video demonstration, this is not new, its a nutating tamping which has been done for years...

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Thanks for chiming in Dave. I have not heard of the "nutation" technique. How does one find that out? Just like this!

So I looked nutation up from your link on this wonderful website and the description I saw was,
"Think of flipped coin that has landed on the ground, but not yet settled, as it wobbles along its edge. You roll the tamper, so the top of the handle describes a circular motion above the basket. The bottom edge of the tamper presses down at one spot on the edge of the puck, and that spot rotates around the entire edge as the motion proceeds."

The technique I have arrived at and described on this thread is not a "wobble" technique. If I saw the info about nutation, I sure would have tried it.
But this is what happens when someone works in isolation; someone being me. My technique is to lay the tamper lightly on top of the leveled grounds and then with the forefinger and thumb, lightly hit the base of the tamper while moving your hand circularly, back and forth around the tamper base to evenly tamp on the grinds. So the handle of the tamper is not help, the tamper is not moved around at all; no wobble, just a light finger tamp, no polishing, just a continuous light tamp with the help of gravity. And do the circular tamping for about a minute or so.
Maybe call it "gravity tamping".

Many thanks for your comments.

To observe nutation, just spin a coin on the counter. After it starts falling, and before it stops, the edge making contact will rotate around the perimeter. This motion is called nutation, and can be mimicked as a tamping technique.

Larry,

What size basket are you using? I have tried three times and seem to have not gotten satisfactory results. I am using double ims competition basket and when the cake/puck is spent there is convex impression in it. I am wondering if i need a single basket to try your risretto technique or go even finer with the grind.

RadioYYZ, I am using the double espresso filter basket that came with my Profitec Pro700 machine. 14g dose of course.
Yes the convex impression is normal for the results I am getting. Dark roast beans. Look at the early page of the
thread for the coffee beans i am using. As you know the beans make a great difference.

and yes, try a finer grind, but stay with the double basket. And when you lay the tamper lightly onto the leveled
grounds in the basket, to see if it is fine enough, lift off the tamper to see that the surface is really really smooth, almost
without any texture. The grinds are that small. If your machine can take it, go that fine. It will take a while for a drop
to drop in the cup.

In any case, let it pour for 25 seconds or longer. I am getting usually 40 to 80 seconds, but maybe average 30-50 seconds
before stopping. Stop just before any blonding is obvious. (See my pictures of the Ghost Drops on a napkin.)
The ghost drop idea was an inadvertent thing where i was using a paper napkin to catch the drops from the portafilter
after I have pulled the cup away from the machine. It has helped me to determine if I am stopping too soon or too late.

If there are signs of Ghost Drops on the napkin, I am going to be happiest, if no Ghost Drops, less happy,
but very happy. So the drops have helped me with making a ristretto cup rather than the blonding idea in standard
espresso cups. I only make "real" ristrettos (Italian type I guess) and can't go back to the standard shot.

By the way, off topic, but I think a lot of members are like me always searching for interesting beans to brew with.
Nicoletti coffee beans are great. Wonderful crema and nice flavors. Very fresh. May have been mentioned here already,
I don't know.
I don't use the Nicoletti beans as they are not for ristretto (to my taste) as they are a lighter roast. Amazon has them at a good price.
https://www.amazon.com/Nicoletti-Coffee ... op?ie=UTF8