Hello,

My setup is Alexia E61 (no-PID), Compak K3 (new burrs), bottomless portafilter. I am also using the cutoff yogurt container and a chop stick (WDT?) to stir up my ground coffee and break up any clumps. I am very careful to make sure I have an even distribution with my finger to avoid channeling around the edges of the basket. Tamping seems to be approx 30 lbs when I check it on the scale. Also I just descaled the mushroom, but this problem has been going on a while...

I seem to have good success with every other shot. Then the next seems to go sour, or bitter (i can't tell anymore) and is basically a sink shot.

I am pulling shots at 9 bar and measuring 194 F with a styrofoam cup and thermometer following a boiler cycle. Assuming that puts me at about 200 F at the brewhead.

My method is always exactly the same, I am weighing my shots and doing 19g in and 36 out in about 32 seconds as per Pilot Roaster's recommendations for the current roast I have.

I have a delicious shot or two, and then I can't seem to repeat it. I have been watching the bottom of the basket closely and although it's not bad I still notice the odd little area that does not have fluid exiting (maybe about 6 holes in the basket). Maybe dispersion problems?? If even a tiny spot on the bottom of the basket does not have coffee exiting is it totally a bad extraction??

I currently don't have a PID or a brewhead thermometer. Trying to decide whether the PID is worth it or is temp surfing good enough.

Could anyone give me some suggestions what I might be doing incorrectly? Every time I seem to check temp, it is always the same, so I was thinking it might not be that.

Thanks again for continued help.

Mike

Some thoughts...

Thermometer in the cup is not very valuable other than to say, "Ya- the machine is on," or that the temperature is pretty close. Eric's group thermometer is by far the best tool for that.
As far as distribution, go back to basics. The less you do the less chance there is for inconsistency.
- Forget the finger for distribution. Distribute when dosing or grinding the best you can, leave the funnel in place and shake to level as good as possible, remove funnel, tap PF downwards to settle and then tamp.
- Just tamp hard- forget the force. If a 40-50 pound tamp flows too slow, you are grinding too fine or using too much coffee.
- While we are on that subject, are you weighing the coffee for each dose to 0.1 grams?
- It could be a temperature variance - maybe the first shot is hotter than the second.. or not. Eric's thermometer verifies the flush time being correct and quantifies the highest temperature reached during the extraction.

Thanks for the first response. Good ideas...

Since the Erics thermometer seem to be running around 150 Canadian up here, and I heard the PID kit was maybe 300, thought it might be better to just spring for the PID....I wasn't sure.

Yes my scale is accurate to the 0.1g and I was settling for within 0.2g.

Hi Mike,

The Alexia is a great machine, in my biased opinion. Can you answer some questions that might help everyone help you?

1. When were your beans roasted?
2. What basket?

Without knowing any of that for sure, I will say, your dose is probably too high. Try 14-15G (weighed after dosing on a 0.1G scale), especially if you are using the stock Alexia basket.

This will help you get comfortable with what you are doing and make things easier. Also, try a paper clip for WDT, a chopstick is a bit thick. This way you move the grounds around but dont dramatically shift them.

Hi Ryan,

Beans were roasted 8 days ago. Allowing machine at least 30 mins warm-up as well. I will try paper clip instead of the chopstick.

I am using what I believe is the stock double basket. (Have single and triple as well). Will attach a picture. Is 19 grams too much for the Alexia or just for the double basket?

Thanks

mikesnow wrote:Hi Ryan,

Beans were roasted 8 days ago. Allowing machine at least 30 mins warm-up as well. I will try paper clip instead of the chopstick.

I am using what I believe is the stock double basket. (Have single and triple as well). Will attach a picture. Is 19 grams too much for the Alexia or just for the double basket?

Thanks
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First, the Alexia takes 50 min of warm up to truly stabilize temps. It'll be rock solid temp consistent after that. 30 min is a bit short and that last 20 min makes a big difference in brew temps. You actually don't even have to flush or anything. Just wait a couple minutes between shots. It's so stable that you don't need a PID ( unless you wish to tweak a couple degrees here or there). I have a PID and Eric's thermometer also. You could easily get away with just the thermometer as a temp gauge and not mis a thing. I also made a DIY Thermofilter because I'm obsessive!

I think 19 is too big for the stock basket. You could always check for sure using the "penny/nickel/dime test". If you do a search you can find the formal method. Basically prep your basket exactly as normal with 19 g. Place a penny on top center after tamping, lock the portafilter in and pull it out. If you have cracking or major indentations, it's too much. Common cause of blank spots during extractions is because the puck expands and hits the screen.

Seriously though, I recently switched to 14-15 g doses and it's amazing how much easier it is to get a great bottomless shot! I don't even get sprays on the machine or portafilter, none. I have always WDT. It's an odd feeling to use a bottomles and not have to clean all the random coffee spots up after a brew session.

Up doses were too in my face and I was getting inconsistent pours no matter how anal my prep was.

Very good response, Ryan.

On my VBM DD I have been using 16.5 grams with the double basket to good result. But the dose has to match other parameters. Still, I think I would need a hammer instead of a temper to get 19 games in my double basket.
And for the WDT, if you have to do that, push a thin sewing needle into a cork. I shake the PF to level as much as possible, tap downwards on the top of an old, one-piece aluminum tamper, then tamp to 35-40 or so. If I see clumping I will WDT but try to avoid it. There are other factors that make it necessary like when I accidentally smack the PF on something while moving it to my tamping mat.

Thanks, I read your website quite a few times! I like the needle in cork idea.

Hi Guys,

I tried the coin on top of the 19grams. You were right, the shower screen did depress the coin into the tamped puck. Guess I should have been using the triple basket for that dose, but don't understand when is too much headroom so I went down to 14 grams.

I had been aiming for 19g dry to 36g wet in about 30 seconds, so to keep 52% ratio I assume 14 grams should now yield 26.5 grams in the same amount of time? I tried this with a much harder tamp and tried with and without WDT (with sewing needle). Also let machine warm up for 1 hour, and didn't do any flushes.

I dialed in the grinder to give the 26.5 grams in 32 seconds and the espresso is still sour. Mouthfeel is right but taste is not. I also still notice a few small blank spots at the bottom of basket during extraction.

One thing I would say, is that I am not very good at is knowing where to stop the shot visually by looking at the cone (I have been doing it rather by weight). I have watched all the videos online and honestly it seems like the stopping point is different in each video.

Will get thermometer soon enough, but any other suggestions in the mean time?

Thanks again
Mike

One thing I would say, is that I am not very good at is knowing where to stop the shot visually by looking at the cone (I have been doing it rather by weight).

Then, use the double basket in the single spout portafilter and observe the flow. As soon as it goes "squiggly", all is DONE. 14g is much too low . . . I would go for 17g in the stock basket (top of my head). I would also say about 2 minutes between shots.

The PID really makes the Alexia shine but you need to be pretty handy to install same and even then, I am not so sure it is still available as a kit.

Of course, I sorta like the thermometer and you can contact me directly via the address below my sig.