Pulling 'true' doubles - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
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RapidCoffee
Team HB

#11: Post by RapidCoffee »

45-50ml from 14g ain't bad. But checking for wear on the grinder burrs is a good suggestion. I tend to be conservative, and replaced the burrs on my SJ before they reached half of Mazzer's rated lifespan.
John

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dsc (original poster)

#12: Post by dsc (original poster) »

Hi guys,

the burrs are pretty fresh, I changed them less than 4 months ago. The pressure is set to around 8.5bar and I always grind with a full hopper of beans (around 200-250g of beans).

Here's a video showing today's shot, unfortunately last one with this batch of beans:

[vimeo]http://vimeo.com/2707578[/vimeo]

You can still see channeling and it's far from perfect but I have to say it was pretty good taste-wise, although a bit flat to be honest. It looked pretty good to:



[sorry for the out of focus shot]

Regards,
dsc.

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eastpresso

#13: Post by eastpresso »

To rule out the grinder - if you can, try the same beans with a different grinder even a hand grinder will do. If the grinder is to blame - John already suggested cleaning so I would take off the burrs and clean the carrier(s), maybe some coffee was left when you changed the burrs last time. Did you clean the screen and diffusor plate? You are using WDT? There's a video of an SJ shot with the Elektra in the TGP thread, the initial pressure build up of your shot should be slower.

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coffee.me

#14: Post by coffee.me »

Yeah, I know someone might go :shock: , but on my machine, different baskets (edit: but with the same dose), give me different extractions...you might wanna think in that cheap direction too. Sorry, only one more variable to look at!

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dsc (original poster)

#15: Post by dsc (original poster) »

Hi guys,

I've ran out of those beans so I can't really try anything more with them (I can reorder a pack though and I might do that sometime). The grinder was cleaned a few days ago and that included removing the upper burr carrier and brushing any old coffee out (I've ran some rice through it as well). The screen and the plate behind it was cleaned not so long ago, so I might give that a try, although that wouldn't cause such problems (it will affect taste though). I don't use WDT any more as I don't have problems with clumping since my doserless switch on my Major.

I can slow down the pour, but that of course affects the volume. Now I've switched to some Monsoon Malabar and I get nice thick cones and proper (ie. 50-60ml) volumes even with lower doses, but I'm struggling with quickly dissipating crema. That is a bit strange as the coffee is almost two weeks old, although it was frozen for a day and I'm guessing that affected it somehow.

Regards,
dsc.

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malachi

#16: Post by malachi »

another_jim wrote: Try worrying only about the taste.
"Taste is the only morality." -- John Ruskin

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peacecup

#17: Post by peacecup »

You should try some commercial Italian espresso roasts, or something made to emulate them. After all, that's what you're trying to reproduce.

Look up an article by Mark Prince on CG, entitled, the traditional double or some such. Very interesting.

This thread has led me to think of the ristretto as a bit of a crutch, as Mark suggests in the article. Turning the machine off (or pulling the cup on a lever machine) when the shot begins to blonde can lead one to develop a permanent limp.

PC
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eastpresso

#18: Post by eastpresso »

dsc wrote:,
<snip>
Now I've switched to some Monsoon Malabar and I get nice thick cones and proper (ie. 50-60ml) volumes even with lower doses, but I'm struggling with quickly dissipating crema. That is a bit strange as the coffee is almost two weeks old, although it was frozen for a day and I'm guessing that affected it somehow.

Regards,
dsc.
If the extraction problem is/was related to one particular blend I support:
another_jim wrote wrote:
Try worrying only about the taste.
:wink:

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dsc (original poster)

#19: Post by dsc (original poster) »

Hi guys,

I wasn't really worried about how the pulls looked like, as the taste wasn't as bad as thought it would be. I was simply curious why it's harder to pull a 'proper' double. Ristrettos are pretty easy, you simply grind finer and/or pack more coffee in the basket and stop the pour when it blonds. With normal double I always had problems with fast blonding or not enough volume.

Regards,
dsc.

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malachi

#20: Post by malachi »

It's harder to pull a good tasting shot based upon time and volume than it is to pull a shot based upon extraction. This is why few if any experienced baristas use timers and measuring devices and instead simply watch flow / rate / color and terminate shot once it's done.

The best analogy is cooking a steak.
It's very hard to cook a steak based upon "for medium rare you should cook X minutes per side where X = the thickness of the steak in inches times Y seconds". It's far easier to simply cook it until it's medium rare.


If you pull shots based upon a desired extraction for your specific coffee and your own personal taste (flow / rate / color) sometimes you'll end up with a 0.75oz double. Sometimes you'll end up with a 2oz double. Sometimes you'll have a 2.5oz double. It all depends on your coffee, your grinder, your machine, your technique and even the environmental variables at play -- coupled to your own personal taste.
"Taste is the only morality." -- John Ruskin