Hi,

I have been wondering for a while now about the fact that I might not be able to achieve (some) coffee shops quality drinks with my E61 machine.

I've been doing espresso and roasting at home for quite some time now and I consider myself pretty knowledgeable.

Here's my current setup :

Rocket Evo V2 with Eric's thermometer
18g VST basket
Mahlkonig K30
Ceado E37S
Water : 70/30 recipe

I've been through pounds and pounds of coffee from different roasters and the taste always seems to be quite similar even though it shouldn't ...

Tried different dosing, different temps, extraction time, brew pressure, etc ...

There's that little something in the taste that's missing that brings out all the flavors that I can get when I go to a good coffee shop.

Have I reach the maximum that I can get from my E61 ?

Machine and grinders are always clean (inside and out)

Feel free to ask any questions.

Thanks !

Ever consider a lever machine for comparison purpose to your pump machines ?

It may very well be the grinder. Are the cafes you frequent using conical grinders? In my experience, conical grinder tends to bring more detectable/complex flavors in the cup, at the expense of more sparkles/brightness in the cup.

What kind of water are you using?

It's rare for me to have a better shot in a cafe than what I can make at home. And I'm using an E61 HX. And I visit many of the better cafes in Toronto. I can routinely make better shots at home than most cafes, or at least their equal. And I'm talking about the good cafes. Not the vast majority which are crappy.

It wasn't always that way, though. It took time for me to nail all the variables at home.

But I wouldn't underestimate the E61. It's capable of excellent espresso if the other variables are right.

Edit: I see now you posted 70/30 water. What is it you don't like about your shots? That might help.

samuellaw178 wrote:It may very well be the grinder. Are the cafes you frequent using conical grinders?

Majority of the ''good'' coffee shop I go use K30's or Mazzer Robur\Major

canuckcoffeeguy wrote:What kind of water are you using?

It's rare for me to have a better shot in a cafe than what I can make at home. And I'm using an E61 HX. And I visit many of the better cafes in Toronto. I can routinely make better shots at home than most cafes, or at least their equal. And I'm talking about the good cafes. Not the vast majority which are crappy.

It wasn't always that way, though. It took time for me to nail all the variables at home.

But I wouldn't underestimate the E61. It's capable of excellent espresso if the other variables are right.

Edit: I see now you posted 70/30 water. What is it you don't like about your shots? That might help.

I can't say that any of my shots are bad, they all taste pretty good but they seem to be missing some flavors and that mouthfeel that makes you say, Wow that's a really good coffee.

Even though I use different beans, taste seems to always be quite similar no matter what I do ...

Talking espresso but also drinks with milk (1 to 1 ratio mostly)

An E61 should, generally speaking, produce shots with good body and mouthfeel.

-What kind of flush routine do you use?
-When you brew, what thermometer reading are you seeing during the shot?
-Can you post a video of your full prep, including grinding, distribution, tamping, and pull?
-Are you weighing your dose and shots?
-Are you getting the same results with home roasted beans and purchased beans?

-Grind, dose, tamp then flush water until I get to 209-210 so when I pull the shot I'm at 201-204F at the grouphead.
-Usually around 205 to 200
-I can try but to be honest not sure it will help something ... I'm getting good full extractions and a single stream within seconds (naked portafilter)
-Weighing every dose and shots
-I'm starting to get good results with the beans I roast so sometimes yes and sometimes no (rarely purchased bean are worst than mine )

There's that little something in the taste that's missing that brings out all the flavors that I can get when I go to a good coffee shop.

It would be interesting to find out what one or more of those "good coffee shop(s)" are using as regards grams in and grams out. Maybe you can weigh their beverage?

-Weighing every dose and shots

And what is your grams in and grams out? Personally I prefer a brew ratio of 1.67 to 1.75 to 1, i.e., 18g in, 30-32 grams out.

What is the maximum reading on your boiler pressure gage when the element just cuts off? I would recommend 1.00 bar as these machines steam very well.

Whatever your current boiler pressure setting is, I believe you are not flushing enough because with a flush-n-go technique, the thermometer will read 3-5 degrees BELOW the temperature of the water presented to the coffee.

erics wrote:It would be interesting to find out what one or more of those "good coffee shop(s)" are using as regards grams in and grams out. Maybe you can weigh their beverage?

And what is your grams in and grams out? Personally I prefer a brew ratio of 1.67 to 1.75 to 1, i.e., 18g in, 30-32 grams out.

What is the maximum reading on your boiler pressure gage when the element just cuts off? I would recommend 1.00 bar as these machines steam very well.

Whatever your current boiler pressure setting is, I believe you are not flushing enough because with a flush-n-go technique, the thermometer will read 3-5 degrees BELOW the temperature of the water presented to the coffee.

I did ask the baristas at those coffee shops and using the same in/out parameters.

Roughly, 18.5-19 in and 36-40 out.

So, machine at idle for couple of hours, I prep the shot, tamp and then flush until I get 3-5 degrees below the desired temp ? So if I want 201 brew temp, I need to backflush until 196-198 ?