dsc wrote:The best part is that you can do this with a heap in the middle of the basket (at least in my case) which means I do nothing more than nutating, no WDT, no additional re-distribution.

Normally I dose carefully ("pay attention to the landing"), redistribute with a Stockfleth's Move, and do a NSEW tamp. This morning I dosed carefully with the Compak K10 WBC, no redistribution, and used the TORR tamper with the angled piston for some serious nutation action and light pressure, followed by a firm center tamp. The pours were even with no signs of channeling. Go figure.

In my experience, with my machine, tamper, and grinder, a slight nutation does help to get a more compact and evenly distributed puck. I believe Jim once pointed out that the machines that compact earth do the same thing for the same reason: the irregularly shaped particles will lock together if just pressed down, leaving spaces that will come out with slight movement.

But in an attempt to completely derail the discussion, I offer this, which I'm quite surprised no one has put into this thread before:

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master -- that's all.'

Best,
David

Tonight I pulled three shots of Ritual Snowcone on my new La Peppina, ground in the Kyocera, dumped into the 45 mm portafilter followed with a nutation, a light tamp, and polishing the puck.

I had three great extractions and non-soupy pucks. I can't pin it all on the nutation since I coarsened up the grind and switched roasts, but I was very happy.

HB wrote:Normally I dose carefully ("pay attention to the landing"), redistribute with a Stockfleth's Move, and do a NSEW tamp. This morning I dosed carefully with the Compak K10 WBC, no redistribution, and used the TORR tamper with the angled piston for some serious nutation action and light pressure, followed by a firm center tamp. The pours were even with no signs of channeling. Go figure.

It's because that tamper is designed the correct way for this move to be useful (assuming you used the one that you showed me with the angled sidewalls).

yakster wrote:Tonight I pulled three shots of Ritual Snowcone on my new La Peppina, ground in the Kyocera, dumped into the 45 mm portafilter followed with a nutation, a light tamp, and polishing the puck.

I had three great extractions and non-soupy pucks. I can't pin it all on the nutation since I coarsened up the grind and switched roasts, but I was very happy.

Can I ask how you were doing it before? I found everything that has been mentioned on what to do and how to pull shots has no play when it comes to using a lever.

Lyndon,

See my reply on a new thread: Espresso Techniques Applied to Levers.

HB wrote:For those who are scratching their heads after reading the above, here's a video:

«missing video»
From the Tamp and Dose Techniques Digest:

Has anyone else posted a video of their nutation technique? I've always been a little unclear on how much pressure to apply, how many "rotations" to do, etc. This is the only video I've ever seen, and I note that Jim mentioned the motion seems very understated.

I think the most important thing to understand about the nutating tamp (well it was for me) is that the nutation is in many ways a pre-tamp and applies very little downward pressure. I see it more as a simple and effective distribution technique. You do it with the tamper but before and separately from the actual downwards pistonic application of pressure.

That sounds incredibly pretentious, but hopefully it gets across the fact that it's really a two-stage technique: nutation and then tamp. You can see that quite clearly in the little video clip and it's the way I do it (but only once and without any tapping, FWIW).

I press down the grinds with the weight of the tamper, than do the same sort of motion in the video, but much more exaggerated and for longer, using only the weight of the tamper again. I then tamp straight down and do a quick spin to polish the surface. I'm just curious to see how others do it, since this is is the only video I've ever seen.

I used an Espro flat bottom tamper until about 4 months ago when I bought the Torr 58+ size European curve base tamper. I was a bit apprehensive about the shape but it does create a slightly curved edge of coffee around the inside edge of the PF. The 58+ size works well with the 58mm Synesso ridgeless baskets. I have changed my prep procedures dramatically and the affect on the pull has been positive. I use a tamper weight only NSEW nutation while apply light pressure on the inside of the basket. I then do one light nutation, light tamp and then a polish. The result is a very clean inside leaving only a few grinds on the rim to clean off. The pulls normally start out in a thin stream in the center and quickly changes to a thicker stream. I never have to tap the PF to remove coffee. I suspect the curved inside edge of the coffee bed helps to direct the flow of water to the center of the puck. I am going to stick with this procedure.

michaelbenis wrote:I think the most important thing to understand about the nutating tamp (well it was for me) is that the nutation is in many ways a pre-tamp and applies very little downward pressure. I see it more as a simple and effective distribution technique. You do it with the tamper but before and separately from the actual downwards pistonic application of pressure.

That sounds incredibly pretentious, but hopefully it gets across the fact that it's really a two-stage technique: nutation and then tamp. You can see that quite clearly in the little video clip and it's the way I do it (but only once and without any tapping, FWIW).

+1 (except for the pretentious part ). I apply nutation exactly the same way. It's especially effective for improving distribution (prior to tamping) when you downdose below the basket rim.