Newbie: Flow color vs weight to stop extraction - Page 2

#11: Post by **another_jim** » August 15th, 2020, 6:53 pm

Dick and I are saying the same thing. A problem is that following the advice takes a good deal of experience and technique; which takes practice.

So here goes: Say you have brew recipe of an 18 gram dose into a 36 gram shot. The people posting the recipe assume you can grind and dose so as not to get a spraying meltdown shot, a gushing shot , or choked shot. If you can do that without a lot of problems (i.e. on your second or third try); you're ready for next step ...

How do you know you are using the right grind setting and basket for your recipe? Because your shot is just going blond when you hit that 36 gram point. If it is still running dark, you might try a grinding a little finer, using a lower dose, and adjusting the brew weight accordingly.

This brings us to the next point for experienced people. Every machine and grinder is different, so is every basket; this is true even for multiple copies of the same brand. For someone to say use a brew ration of 1:2 is useful; for someone to say use 18 grams in and 36 out is arrant bullsh*t; it may work on their setup, but it almost certainly will not work the same way on yours. Adjust your dose and grind to get the shot flowing at a reasonable rate, and just blonding when you hit your target brew ratio.

#12: Post by **jpender** » August 15th, 2020, 7:16 pm

Translucence isn't a precise point. The first drops of espresso are technically translucent. So it seems to come down to experience knowing when it's "translucent enough", for a given coffee/roast. As a beginner I'm not sure how to apply this advice to pull until it's done, so to speak.

#13: Post by **PIXIllate** » August 16th, 2020, 12:41 am

another_jim wrote:Dick and I are saying the same thing. A problem is that following the advice takes a good deal of experience and technique; which takes practice.

A video is worth a lot of words. I found yours on the LFBT method of adjusting the temperature offset very helpful.

Could you point to some videos of shots where the correct translucency can be pointed out at a specific time in the video?

#14: Post by **Jeff** » August 18th, 2020, 1:21 am

I'm not Jim, but this might be helpful, both for knowing when a shot is "done" as well as a level of uniformity to strive for (no, not my shots!!!!).

#15: Post by **jpender** » August 18th, 2020, 9:49 am

Those shots are pretty. There is something about that viscous, striped flow that I find mesmerizing. I always watch my own shots.

I can't speak for anyone else. But watching that video doesn't really inform me about when the shot is "done". It seems to me that there is a significant stretch where it looks pretty much the same. Why not stop it a little earlier?

#16: Post by **another_jim** » August 18th, 2020, 10:36 am

I'd have stopped it at around 45 seconds. But this looks like a very poorly extracted, "espresso porn" shot, with an overloaded basket and coarse grind. I would be leery about drinking it, expecting the usual emetic, punch in the face concoction that passes for espresso among people who post such films.

#17: Post by **jpreiser** » August 18th, 2020, 11:08 am

Looks like the stills are from the video posted directly above. If so, according to text in the video, those were 14g doses in a 15g VST basket. The video was output from testing Decent Espresso is going on different diffuser designs being considered for a future version of the DE1 machine.

August 18th, 2020, 11:23 am

The video is so helpful! I timed it and it was nearly a perfect 25 seconds to reach translucence. I'm assuming the person reached their brew ratio target and taste also.

Its also helpful to see the set of pictures that were ground too course and therefore have a long flow rate.

What are the variables to manipulate to reach the desired translucence effect? For example, AnotherJim mentioned basket affects it. Let's say the basket is a "standard" double basket, the factors that can be manipulated are grind size, tamping pressure, even grinds, and dosage. Are there others? What range of dosage is usually seen in adjustments? 14g-21g? How does the roast affect the dosing? (Dark roast <-> Light roast)

August 18th, 2020, 12:12 pm

Here is my morning shot. I am using a light roast from LA Mill Emilio Garcia Carrero. 18G in 36G out took me 45 seconds. It looks like it starts to blond around the right maker of grams. 45 seconds seems like a long time to pull a shot. The taste is okay. Not bad not great. Tastes balanced to me in terms of acidity and flavor.

#20: Post by **Bluenoser** » August 18th, 2020, 2:15 pm

You need to experiment. Try a little coarser to get 40 then 35 then 30 seconds. Wait for them to cool and taste to see which you prefer. You may prefer the 45 second extraction. But you need to experiment to learn the effect of adjusting parameters. Just change one thing at a time. I find the color too difficult or me to nuance as I only pull a small number of shots a day.