Hello all. I started my espresso Journey with the Flair58 about a year ago and now have the GS3 MP. I currently have a Niche grinder but plan on changing to flat burrs with the Option-0 when the 100 becomes available again.

From the time the espresso hits the cup, I am hitting a 2:1 ratio with my 17 gram basket in as quick as 15 seconds. My brain tells me to grind finer, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

Just to have the data in one place:
LM GS3 MP
WDT, level, tamp
9 bar shots
17g basket
17g of coffee
~34g espresso out
~15 second shot times (from first drip)
Niche Grinder (my setting is at 10 currently. The lowest I've ever gone for espresso)
Medium-Medium/Dark Mexican Roast

All of that said, the shot does not taste bad! I simply feel out of the norm for such quick shots.

I would try either or both, slowing down the shot with the brew paddle or/and grinding finer. I'd also try 18 to 18.5g ground coffee in the basket.

YMMV

clokwork wrote:The lowest [grind setting] I've ever gone for espresso

I'm more surprised when two machines or two extraction profiles use the same grind setting!

Here you've got both, coming from a Flair.

If it tastes good, there's nothing "wrong" with fast shots. There is a growing number of people that enjoy shots that are done in under 20 seconds, start to finish, especially with some of the modern burr cuts. There are some reasonable explanations for this second "sweet spot" for espresso.

I think it also worth trying what your experience is telling you -- grind finer. Every machine, grinder, and coffee combination is a little different. Until you "risk" seeing how it behaves outside of where you happened to start, you may be stuck at the top of a foothill of the mountain you could be exploring instead.

I agree with Dan.

Also, it would be nice to know what your total time is from the time you flip the switch? I have coffees that pour in 15 seconds or less, but my preinfusion time is 10 to 20 seconds.

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:I would try either or both, slowing down the shot with the brew paddle or/and grinding finer. I'd also try 18 to 18.5g ground coffee in the basket.

YMMV

I believe this led me to the solution for me. I was hitting the puck with too little pressure at first for pre-infusion and when I see drips after 3 bars, I'd increase to 9 for the duration of the shot.

Now I hit the puck at 9 bars and fade back to 6 towards the end and boom, I'm in the time range that "seems" normal. Around 26 seconds from first drip.

There are other ways to tackle this issue, so I'm not saying this is the only way or only answer, but I appreciate all of the feedback. The coffee is not stale though. It is roughly a week old.

BaristaBob wrote:I agree with Dan.

Also, it would be nice to know what your total time is from the time you flip the switch? I have coffees that pour in 15 seconds or less, but my preinfusion time is 10 to 20 seconds.

This is good to read. The shot did taste nice. I won't get too caught up on times anymore.

I wouldn't mess with pre-infusion until you've found consistency in your espresso making with standard shots, it's just adding more variables. Also, the timer always starts as soon as you pull the handle, not once the espresso starts to drip out.

As others have said, grinder finer, and if that doesn't' work, its usually from very stale coffee.

Medium and medium-dark roasts extract readily, so you don't need to do any special preinfusion. You can use the "standard" espresso extraction technique, which on the GS/3 MP means moving the paddle quickly all the way to the left to start the shot.

When you do this, the built-in 0.6mm gicleur (flow restrictor) in the group head reduces the flow rate so you get to 9 BAR in roughly 3 seconds without slamming the puck and potentially breaking it up. This is fast but relatively gentle preinfusion, a hallmark of the GS/3 series. Getting to 9 BAR relatively fast compresses the puck, slowing the flow even more. If the shot still runs too fast, just grind a little finer or increase the dose until you get in the 25-35 second range.

Long, slow preinfusion is primarily useful for light and light-medium roasts that are hard to extract. It allows you to grind super-fine without choking the machine. The long, slow preinfusion loosens the puck so the machine won't choke. Typically, these shots run longer, 40-60 seconds including preinfusion. The longer contact time and greater surface area of the grounds results in higher extraction yield from beans that don't give up their goods easily.

Like others have said, how old is the coffee as it sounds like it is stale?

Unrelated -> good luck scooping up a P100!