New ECM Synchronika, need help dialing in

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
Mggray87

Postby Mggray87 » Oct 03, 2018, 11:16 pm

Alright. I had a lucca a53 (vivaldi) now synchronika. First day. I kept my grinder where I always kept it with my malabar gold beans with my lucca as a starting point. I always thought I was grinding finer than most with the beans and 53mm machine. But anyways. On the synchronika. 20g rushed out I had to go finer and finer. I have my saint Anthony industries levy setting so I think is tamping a good amount. I now have it getting about 34oz in 30 seconds. But the pull doesnt look so sharp. The stream kind of flickers or pulses. Also the puck when I take out the filter. It's pretty wet. Water is sitting on the top. Of course when I take it out the water absorbs. But I dont think I can go any more course. Is it normal for e61 to have to be alot finer?

How to correct pulsing? I'm not getting much spraying on my bottomless portafilter. Just the pulse look

Grinder is e37j.

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bluesman

Postby bluesman » Oct 04, 2018, 2:34 pm

Mggray87 wrote:the puck when I take out the filter. It's pretty wet. Water is sitting on the top. Of course when I take it out the water absorbs..

Congrats on the new machine - I love my Technika Profi and am sure you'll get your Synch dialed in just fine. After 8 months with ECM, I'm consistently making the best espresso & cappuccino I've ever made and some of the best I've ever had. My pucks look exactly as you describe - don't worry about it, as it means nothing.

Pulsing outflow may mean channeling, despite your observation that there's little spray from the naked PF. I don't have any experience at all with a 53mm group and hope others who do will offer useful input. But my understanding from reading and listening is that the deeper puck in a 53 is more resistant to channeling - so your distribution may need some improvement. I've gotten excellent results by grinding into a small pitcher, covering it with my hand, & shaking it before dosing into the basket.

I do have a lot of experience with Malabar Gold, which needs to be ground much finer than most others. If you're tamping firmly and still getting 34 gm out in 30 seconds from ~19-20 gm (you don't tell us your dose), you can probably go significantly finer. I'm pulling 40 gm from 22 in about 45 seconds after 25-30 sec of line pressure PI with great results.

Mggray87

Postby Mggray87 » Oct 04, 2018, 3:58 pm

Thanks for the time to reply. I really appreciate it.

I got to experiment with 2 extractions before heading to work again. First one I took a video I'm posting it on my YouTube. It falls within time. But looks ugly Haha. 20g dose in 20g ims barista pro basket. Is what I'm using. What makes me feel like something is happening because I'm definitely alot finer on my e37j now. Which is about 14 to 15 seconds to dose 20g. Seems kinda slow. Which makes me feel I'm way to five. But could be all in head. Since I'm used to 53mm triple basket for 1.5 years.

I was able to try something else right before I left. Again 20g. Took a tooth pick and just moved grounds in basket. Then took my saint Anthony's wedge. Polished it(still not sure how deep to set this wedge) then again saint Anthony's levy and tamped it. Which barely tamps after wedge. And this time. It was slow. 24g at 30 seconds. Still a little watery/pulse stream towards the end. So I believe you that must be a distribution issue. Which sucks. This is why I bought the wedge. Its suppose to do that. Set worked great on my 53.

Oh also let me mention I'm wondering if it's old beans as well. These been sitting a little long in one way container especially when u was waiting for new machine to arrive. I have 1 more bag in freezer I'm going to take out and try next time I have. Also have a bag of super crema beans I never tried before to get a idea.

May i ask what kind of pitcher do u grind into and shake. I may have to try that. I dont see myself with a tooth pick everytime.

Tooth pick, wedge, then levy tamp. That sounds like to much. Hah

JayBeck

Postby JayBeck » Oct 04, 2018, 5:10 pm

I think a lot of what you're seeing is rotary vs vibration pump. A vibration pump's water debit is less than a rotary. That's why you're getting gushers. Keep grinding finer until you get the proper flow. Also make sure you are doing an adequate purge after a large grind adjustment since it will have some of the old grind left over and totally mess with your shot.

Mggray87

Postby Mggray87 » Oct 04, 2018, 6:57 pm

thanks for your input, ill will for sure try to go finer and maybe tamp less. I already over purge. (probably waste a lot of coffee) but ill make sure I continue to do so. ill figure it out soon. once I figure out how to property set my WDT Wedge depth.

Mggray87

Postby Mggray87 » Oct 04, 2018, 6:59 pm

another thing to consider trying which is new to me. is the preinfusion on the synchronika lifting handle half way to see if I can help solve it. but first I want to dial it in without the preinfusion.

mike guy

Postby mike guy » Oct 04, 2018, 7:55 pm

I don't have much to offer that already hasn't been said. Try new beans, grind finer etc.

You may want to double check the pressure with the back flush disc to make sure it's at 9. On that note, while I was able to dial in fine with 9 with mine, I prefer the pressure around 7.5 - 8. I wouldn't introduce too many other variables if I were you right now, but just something to consider.

It should also be noted I never dialed in the machine with the stock baskets. I went straight to VST baskets that I already had on day 1, so that might also be a factor.

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bluesman

Postby bluesman » Oct 04, 2018, 9:18 pm

Mggray87 wrote: May i ask what kind of pitcher do u grind into and shake.

I use one of my old 12 oz milk pitchers. When making a cortado, mac or ristretto, I grind into the glass or cup, shake & dose, flush into the same vessel, dry it, and pull the shot.

Lift the brew lever above the first detent for line pressure preinfusion. The exact position isn't critical, as the group is open to line pressure from just above that "stop" until the pump switch is activated.

Mggray87

Postby Mggray87 » Oct 04, 2018, 9:39 pm

mike guy wrote:I don't have much to offer that already hasn't been said. Try new beans, grind finer etc.

You may want to double check the pressure with the back flush disc to make sure it's at 9. On that note, while I was able to dial in fine with 9 with mine, I prefer the pressure around 7.5 - 8. I wouldn't introduce too many other variables if I were you right now, but just something to consider.

It should also be noted I never dialed in the machine with the stock baskets. I went straight to VST baskets that I already had on day 1, so that might also be a factor.


Same. I have the ims barista pro baskets which are same as vst 24mm high for 18 and 26mm for 20g. 20 which I'm using and dosing at 20. I never used oem baskets either. I'll try new batch of malabar gold after they thaw out.

def

Postby def » Oct 05, 2018, 8:39 am

Mggray87 wrote:Alright. I had a lucca a53 (vivaldi) now synchronika. First day. I kept my grinder where I always kept it with my malabar gold beans with my lucca as a starting point. I always thought I was grinding finer than most with the beans and 53mm machine. But anyways. On the synchronika. 20g rushed out I had to go finer and finer. I have my saint Anthony industries levy setting so I think is tamping a good amount. I now have it getting about 34oz in 30 seconds. But the pull doesnt look so sharp. The stream kind of flickers or pulses. Also the puck when I take out the filter. It's pretty wet. Water is sitting on the top. Of course when I take it out the water absorbs. But I dont think I can go any more course. Is it normal for e61 to have to be alot finer?

How to correct pulsing? I'm not getting much spraying on my bottomless portafilter. Just the pulse look

Grinder is e37j.


I have the same machine and similar grinder(E37s). I am also using Malabar Gold (MG) this week. I will do my best to try to tell you about my experience, and hopefully it can help you.

When I first used MG, I cranked the grind very fine and I ended up choking my Synchronika. Since you already know the setting for too coarse, I think you should perhaps experiment with MG until you get a really slow/long extraction, and then start dialing in from there. My pucks are slightly wet at the top right after an extraction, but are not wet in the middle. They are certainly not soupy wet. My grind is pretty fine; the Ceado produces a very fluffy grind which is a big mound in my pf, but it tamps easily. Here what it typically looks like:
Image

I am using a VST 18g ridge-less basket and the extraction parameters listed at Josuma for MG. https://www.josuma.com/extraction-parameters/. 203-204 degrees Fahrenheit (PID setting) is yielding the best flavor. I tried 207 just to taste, and it was bitter. I am guessing that under 200 would be a bit sour.

I am not tamping hard. Maybe 20 pounds? If my grind is too fine, I will get a slow extraction. I have played around with a bottomless pf and I see very thick and even extractions. Lots of crema. With the ECM double spout pf, my drop time is 5-6 seconds, and total extraction time to 30g is 30 seconds.

Bottom line -- go finer on your grind and see how it tastes. I get a very rich double that is nearly perfectly balanced. Neither sour nor bitter.