Need help getting fruit flavors in lattes

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
wkmok1
Posts: 272
Joined: 10 years ago

#1: Post by wkmok1 »

Over the last little while, I've had lattes at Victorola, Blue Bottle and Coava. The V one was more traditional chocolate in nature. The BB one was made with Ethiopian yirgacheffe beans, and tasted like strawberry Pocky. The Coava one was made with David Mancia beans from Honduras. It had a more stewed fruit flavor. I brought a bag for each cafe home to try.

At home, grinding the BB beans fills the room with fruity, floral aromas. My latte lost the artificial strawberry essence taste, to be replaced by a stewed fruit / jam. I am very happy with the change, not a huge fan of artificial strawberries. Even the spent puck smells nice. The Coava beans still smell fruity/floral at the grinder but my lattes is all chocolate and hazelnut.

I have a Pavoni with a thermometer strapped to the group. I have tried lowering the temperature and get sour notes before regaining the fruit. I would like suggestions on how to get fruit flavors into my latte. My pulls look OK with a naked PF. The amount of force needs is moderate, definitely no gorilla pulls. Some may even say the force is too gentle. Should I grind finer? Coarser? Pre-infuse longer? Shorter? Any ideas?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Winston

Sideshow
Posts: 380
Joined: 8 years ago

#2: Post by Sideshow »

Perhaps the biggest thing you can do would be to use lighter roasts that downplay the chocolately, caramel flavors and enhance and fruity and floral notes. Also, experiment with various single origins or blends featuring those particular origins. Some countries tend to produce fruitier products than others, although I can't break it down by country off the top of my head. That is probably the first step to get you in the ballpark.

Also toy with the temp. For fruit I imagine you wouldn't want to go too high, which would risk upping the bitterness. I imagine for fruity flavors you'd want a nice moderate temp for the beans/roast (not too hot not too cool). Also, pull on the more ristretto side of the spectrum (finer grind with the appropriate dose for 25-35 seconds for something near a 1:1ish coffee-beverage ratio) to boost all the secondary flavor notes present in the particular coffee.

JerDGold
Posts: 177
Joined: 10 years ago

#3: Post by JerDGold »

I agree with sideshow. My girlfriend was just in Portland and brought home a bag of what I assume was the same David Mancia Honduran from Coava that you had. I brewed a 16g ristretto at about 94 degrees celsius (thanks La Spaziale for only offering metric) and as espresso was just too much fruit for me. I like some acid for balance, but prefer something on the bassier side. But as a cappuccino, I got a really pleasant upfront raspberry note, finishing on the cocoa side.

I recommend trying that coffee as a finely ground ristretto and see how you fare. I really liked it.

As for blue bottle, I'm not sure which you had, but as a new subscriber to them, I just got my first shipment and it was the Dandy Espresso. I think it had much better balance than the David Mancia Coava as straight espresso. The fruit was very upfront, but in a more pleasant and sweet way. This I drank mostly as espresso, and found it to be refreshing.

wkmok1 (original poster)
Posts: 272
Joined: 10 years ago

#4: Post by wkmok1 (original poster) »

Thanks, guys.

The BB beans were not a brand like Hayes Valley. The bag just said Ethiopian Yirg. Got the latte and the bag at their cafe near Stanford. Coava had 2 beans available for latte at their Hawthorne Street cafe. Tried them both. One was more traditional chocolate. The David Mancia had nice fruit to it. Been trying to duplicate the fruitiness at home. Today, I started Mancia 2C lower. It's helping...
Winston

LukeFlynn
Posts: 1293
Joined: 10 years ago

#5: Post by LukeFlynn »

Counter Culture's Idido lends itself well to these kind of lattes.

Furthermore, when I'm going for that style, I tend to pull longer yields... something like:

18g in, 42g out.

Also keep in mind, the coffee served in their cafes has likely been rested longer. BB tends to use a 20 gram dose with a pretty tight yield for their drinks AFAIK.

wkmok1 (original poster)
Posts: 272
Joined: 10 years ago

#6: Post by wkmok1 (original poster) »

Luke,

You mean BB produces less espresso per unit weight in beans? But, in your experience, more output helps.

Thanks.
Winston

LukeFlynn
Posts: 1293
Joined: 10 years ago

#7: Post by LukeFlynn replying to wkmok1 »

Well, it depends on the coffee.

I should've prefaced: I was speaking in regards to the Hayes Valley with the BB comment.

But something like that, yes. IIRC, they do a 1:1 ratio with the Hayes. 21 grams in and 21 grams out to my knowledge.