Long shot time ristretto - Page 2

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks for making espresso.
doraymon
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#11: Post by doraymon »

Milligan wrote:I typically start the morning with a full city Italian-style roast that I've worked on over the last few months. I usually go for 15.5g in to 15-20g out depending on the drink at 191F in roughly 25-32s. I'm used to getting the chocolate, spice, hint of dark fruit, creamy texture, and low acidity that I shoot for. However, today I accidentally left my grinder on a very fine setting (10 on the Niche) and put the coffee through it. I ended up with 15.5g in and 16g out in 50s. The shot was nice and even but very slow with the mouse tail forming around the 35s mark.

Pleasantly, the shot was sweeter and nuttier than normal. The length of time did nothing to upset the balance of the drink but brought out some new flavors.

So, I'm curious if long shot time ristrettos are a thing that I've not been aware of or if it is just a particular trait of this coffee. Where do you guys typically find your ristrettos tasting the best and how do you find that they change with shot time, all else being held constant?
First of all, thanks for opening this interesting post, I will try this technique tomorrow.
May I also add that 15.5g of coffee is actually two shots, not one? Although the 16g out will look like one shot, the actual caffeine content will likely be equivalent to 2 shots of espresso.
I normally pull 2 shots with 17g in and 34g out. One shot goest into the cappuccino cup, the other in the espresso cup to wake up before steaming the milk :D

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LBIespresso
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#12: Post by LBIespresso »

Milligan wrote:...However, today I accidentally left my grinder on a very fine setting (10 on the Niche) and put the coffee through it. I ended up with 15.5g in and 16g out in 50s. The shot was nice and even but very slow with the mouse tail forming around the 35s mark.

Pleasantly, the shot was sweeter and nuttier than normal. The length of time did nothing to upset the balance of the drink but brought out some new flavors.

So, I'm curious if long shot time ristrettos are a thing that I've not been aware of or if it is just a particular trait of this coffee. Where do you guys typically find your ristrettos tasting the best and how do you find that they change with shot time, all else being held constant?
I have been surprised to find the same thing. While I often shoot for the 30-36 second window, I have learned to try going longer if I have enough of a coffee and time to play around. Maybe the 30 second thing is cafe friendly and the gains of going longer cost too much time in that setting. We are lucky to get to break all of those rules at home.

I guess it's a good thing to taste your sink shots before you sink them, you just might be pleasantly surprised and even learn something.
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yakster
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#13: Post by yakster »

Longer shots work well on levers and lever-like profiles.
-Chris

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CSME9
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#14: Post by CSME9 »

Longer shots with the right coffee are the bomb.....

buckersss
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#15: Post by buckersss »

Great topic!

I try for the same. 50 second shot. No more than 1.5
With my machine I had liked to see first drops between 5 and 10 seconds.

I echo the sweeter and nuttier comment.

Depends a bit on the grinder and burrs I'm using too. More unimodal or bimodal. With the former I tend to have to use a triple basket and up dose.

Too quick and I don't find there is any sweetness and I don't like the texture.

Any longer than 60-70 seconds, i find I have ground too fine. Tends to be over extracted. Crema and texture suffer.

Id love to know the ideal machine for the type of shot you describe.

Also pulling medium roasts

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#16: Post by DoubleR »

Interesting. With a normale I find long shots on my Niche result in a bitter shot... in fact I find anything over a 1:2.5 results in that bitterness. With that, I've figured a 22g ristretto needs to be pulled around 24 seconds on the niche, but maybe I should be exploring...
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Jeff
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#17: Post by Jeff »

From the master, https://espressovivace.com/american-ristretto/

(Edit: I am not saying this is "right", but it represents a time- and market-proven approach.)

With my thirty-two years of experience improving espresso at Vivace in Seattle, I would like to propose extraction standards I call American Ristretto.

Fresh ground coffee: 20 grams
Shot volume: 20 to 25ml
Extraction time: 27 to 35 seconds


Link to a video off the Vivace page

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BaristaBoy E61
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#18: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

Anything less than 45-sec and I know I have to grind finer.
Decaf is always a challenge to get a long enough shot run!
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

Marcelnl
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#19: Post by Marcelnl »

isn't the grind finer pull longer not the (Napolitan?) italian Ristretto method?

When still using the Faemina, which excels at ristretto, my goto double shot was a 45-55 sec Ristretto, 14g in and 14-ish out.
Using the Urania I do the same but the shot dynamics are different due to the wider basket (I think) so shots typically end up closer to a double espresso.
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buckersss
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#20: Post by buckersss »

BaristaBoy E61 wrote:Anything less than 45-sec and I know I have to grind finer.
Decaf is always a challenge to get a long enough shot run!
Sounds like you are pulling long ristrettos on the speedster?