Londinium WDT. How to use?

Beginner and pro baristas share tips and tricks.
jeffmattel

Postby jeffmattel » Feb 06, 2019, 3:33 pm

So I have been using the Kafatek WDT tool for a while and it does a good job, but it is not consistent. By that I mean that I get spritzers from time to time and also the extraction usually seems to start on one side of the basket and that results in an unbalanced flavor. With all the hype the Londinium tool seems to be getting in here I went ahead and ordered one. I have been using it for two days and the results are even worst. I got one really good/even extraction that tasted wonderful, but the next three were all uneven and that reflected on the flavor. I feel like I did the exact same thing on all the shots so I don't know exactly what to change. Right now I feel like there is really no difference between using a regular needle and the Londinium WDT tool. Is there some kind of special technique I have to follow?

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Feb 06, 2019, 10:08 pm

sounds like your tamp may be uneven and/or you have to level the puck before tamping.
instead of leaning on the tamp, try this: place it into the top of the puck and use your fingers at all 4 corners to feel the edge of the tamp and push it gently down, so your fingers can also feel the depth it goes in and should be able to keep it level.

jeffmattel

Postby jeffmattel » Feb 07, 2019, 12:10 pm

I forgot to mention that I use also a Kafatek Levtamp and a Pullman Chisel.

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Feb 07, 2019, 12:21 pm

how old is your coffee post roast?

jeffmattel

Postby jeffmattel » Feb 07, 2019, 5:44 pm

I usually open the coffee 7 to 10 days post roast.

walt_in_hawaii

Postby walt_in_hawaii » Feb 07, 2019, 5:56 pm

Hmmm. Might be just me and my snobbishness poking through, but I'm one of those guys here on HB who seem to be in the vast minority.... I like my beans fresh off the roaster. I try to use em up by the 7th day, but I frequently run into my self imposed limits on caffeine intake, so most times I've still got some of the week old batch and going into 2nd week with em... but, I never go more than 14 days, at that point I notice I start to get spritzers. Its a curious thing, as I have never before seen a spritzer in my life, when using commercially roasted coffee; something they must be doing in the storage processing? But when I started roasting my own beans, that's when I noticed I have to use em up before 14 days (I like very light roasts) or I am asking for spritzers in espresso. You may want to see if you can find a fresher bag maybe 3 days out of roast and see if that makes any difference.
....of course, before I started roasting my own beans I never had a bottomless pf, either :( so could not have seen the spritzers if they were there. hmph, that might be it.

mountmustache

Postby mountmustache » Feb 07, 2019, 11:11 pm

A one-sided extraction is grinder until proven otherwise. Going along with walt being in the minority, I'm in the minority as one who thinks WDT isn't very useful.

I owned a Fiorenzato F4, a great grinder otherwise, I could WDT for 10 minutes and not a damn thing changed its distribution into the portafilter and subsequent one-sided extraction. The only thing that helped my distribution was the Lyn Weber blind shaker. Grind into it, a couple shakes right side up, a couple shake upside down, distribute, a tap against my hand laterally on either side of the portafilter to settle the circle, tamp and perfect extraction.

Whether the Londinium tool might do better than a single needled tool, I have no idea.

I have since bought a K30 Vario which distributes better directly into the portafilter, so I have no use for the shaker. If you'd like it, PM me and if you feel like paying shipping, I'd be happy to send it to you. I think it's ~$80 retail, but it's just cluttering up my already full coffee area

forbiddenbeat

Postby forbiddenbeat » Feb 08, 2019, 11:28 am

walt_in_hawaii wrote:Hmmm. Might be just me and my snobbishness poking through, but I'm one of those guys here on HB who seem to be in the vast minority.... I like my beans fresh off the roaster. I try to use em up by the 7th day, but I frequently run into my self imposed limits on caffeine intake, so most times I've still got some of the week old batch and going into 2nd week with em... but, I never go more than 14 days, at that point I notice I start to get spritzers. Its a curious thing, as I have never before seen a spritzer in my life, when using commercially roasted coffee; something they must be doing in the storage processing? But when I started roasting my own beans, that's when I noticed I have to use em up before 14 days (I like very light roasts) or I am asking for spritzers in espresso. You may want to see if you can find a fresher bag maybe 3 days out of roast and see if that makes any difference.
....of course, before I started roasting my own beans I never had a bottomless pf, either :( so could not have seen the spritzers if they were there. hmph, that might be it.


Just FYI, a lot of us wait at least 4 days post-roast (often more) because just-roasted coffee has high levels of carbon dioxide and other gasses. You may have a preference for freshly roasted flavors, but this is still worth a read: https://catandcloud.com/blogs/cat-cloud ... ete-licata

OP: I have the Londinium WDT and have never had a gusher, but I also have a lever machine (Londinium R). Are you being pretty aggressive about whisking the grinds? I do small circles around the basket pretty aggressively, make about 3 full passes, then do a little full circle motion to even out the grinds. I don't use a distribution tool.

Also, what tamper are you using? I started using Londinium's tamp and using my thumbs instead of my palm, and it's way easier IMO to see if the tamp is level (you can just naturally feel it).

Edit: Oh you're using LevTamp and distribution tool. Hmm. Other thought: do you have a zero-retention grinder? If not, you may be "chasing your tail", meaning you are getting old grinds first into the basket.

mountmustache

Postby mountmustache » Feb 08, 2019, 11:42 am

On the other hand, I'm at 8000 feet and anything fresh is sour. I try to wait at least 14 days post roast and some of my best coffee has come with month+ old beans

forbiddenbeat

Postby forbiddenbeat » replying to mountmustache » Feb 08, 2019, 11:56 am

Oh, interesting point. I'm at 5500ft. and hadn't actually realized I should be waiting even longer. Is that because gasses escape more readily?