Light roasted espresso confusion: turbo shots, fine grind, extraction pressure - Page 2

#11: Post by ab » March 11th, 2023, 6:57 pm

zefkir wrote:I've pulled outstanding turboshots (Pullman baskets, paper filtered) with both a Kingrinder K6 ($99 conical handgrinder) and a P100. Both very aromatic, very sweet and balanced, with the K6 surprisingly slightly pulling ahead in texture and the P100 in clarity.

The P100 does push a fair ahead in terms of extraction numbers, but even a K6 does 23.5% EY with little effort thanks to the ratio and the added edge extraction granted by paper filters. And as I've said before, the shots taste fantastic.

Curious what grind setting range you are in with the K6. I have one but haven't really figured out the ideal setting range for turbo shots on my flair.

I'm also generally confused how to pull a turbo. Is it pure ramp up to 6/7/8/9 bars or short preinfusion then ramp up? I'd love to further understand this on a lever espresso maker but I haven't found good "rules".

March 11th, 2023, 7:14 pm

About 40 clicks starting from burr lock for a 16:48 in 15-20s, timing starts as soon as I start pressing. Typically on a Flair 58, I'll start pressing with a low enough strength that the pressure doesn't register on the gauge, then once the basket starts dripping, I'll ramp up to 6-7 bar and maintain flow over the course of the shot, often the pressure will drop to 3-4 bar towards the end.

To be frank, rules are just a starting point, some beans I've found taste best in the low 20s, other like going as fast as 13s. Both on the K6.

#13: Post by ab » March 11th, 2023, 9:53 pm

Nice. Then I'm doing turbo shots and didn't fully realize it! Thanks for the tips and settings. When I use my k6 I'm usually at a 40 from my zero point (-4 for me) up to even 50 depending on the bean and roast level.

#14: Post by **ziggomatic** » March 15th, 2023, 11:17 am

I'm having some amazing results and simultaneously some frustrating results with my recent exploration into turbo speed extractions, and I really need some help as to where I should go from here.

With a couple recent coffees, I've been pulling the absolute best tasting shots ever at home on the DE1, utilizing the Easy Blooming profile with 2:1 ratio shots between 16-25 seconds.

I'm in this tricky spot right now where these past 2 coffees I've used were insanely delicious, fruity, sweet, pretty much god shots each pull. The problem is, this same-ish recipe has not translated well to the 3 current coffees I'm working with. Experimenting with faster 15s or slower 30s shots, I'm really not getting much sweetness or really any fruit flavors at all. I've tried playing with temperature but that doesn't change much of the flavor profile here. They don't taste as though they are on any extreme end of too sour, too bitter. They taste relatively balanced overall, just very muted and dull flavors.

My next idea was to shorten ratios and maybe drop down to 1.5 or even 1:1 to try and get more flavor and sweetness.

The coffees have all been light & medium-light roasts.

As you can imagine it's simultaneously exciting i was making the best shots of my life, but also struggling with other coffees to even come close.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

#15: Post by **ziggomatic** » March 15th, 2023, 3:53 pm

I learned from the roaster the current beans I am working with are quite a bit denser than the previous coffees I was seeing a lot of success with. They recommended a coarser grind with hotter temps to get the best out of these denser beans. I will experiment with this recommendation and report back.

#16: Post by **buckersss** » March 15th, 2023, 4:01 pm

erik82 wrote:Ofcourse that it can be done but the whole idea behind it is that it's done with high extraction grinders. It can also work with "lesser" grinders but we do need to give TS all of the information he needs to get the total picture.

I thought it predominately hinged on using grounds that are more unimodal in their particle distribution. Cant 64mm MP burrs do almost as much justice to turbo shots as some 98mm burrs?

#17: Post by **zefkir** » March 15th, 2023, 4:13 pm

Often, minor ratio adjustments are more impactful than grind adjustment wrt to fast shots.

#18: Post by **erik82** » March 17th, 2023, 8:28 am

buckersss wrote:I thought it predominately hinged on using grounds that are more unimodal in their particle distribution. Cant 64mm MP burrs do almost as much justice to turbo shots as some 98mm burrs?

Ofcourse but those relatively small 64mm burrs don't do near as good a job as 98mm burrs in terms of unimodal grounds. So the better the grind the better the effect and 64mm is just bare minimum. For me a really good endgame grinder start at 80mm and upwards where my preference is 80mm over 98mm as it's more versatile.

#19: Post by **mrgnomer** » March 17th, 2023, 2:22 pm

I think Ceado has engineered it's 64mm burrs to maintain alignment very well. I change the 64mm stock burr grind setting of my Ceado E37J atleast 3 times in a session to adjust for different roasts. Zero retention is a bit of a chore when using a hop grinder for single dosing but the extractions I'm getting are really good. If just bigger burrs could consistently grind for better shots than what I'm already getting then I'm missing out on regular God Shots. My next grinder will most likely be a flat burr 80mm+ but for now, I'm happy with my 64mm.

#20: Post by **erik82** » March 17th, 2023, 4:14 pm

Oh yes 64mm can be nice but it's kind of a hit and miss. Bigger burrs give far more hits and less misses. You can get the occassional god shot with 64mm with a lot of work but bigger burrs make life a lot easier. And then there's the question if you're more into 80mm of 98mm but that's personal preference. 98mm is finicky but can be great whereas 80mm is more versatile although less perfect the times you get it perfectly right with 98mm. In general I do think 80mm burrs can overall give the best shots with the least amount of fuss.